I don’t think that going of topic for conflict every time that people disagree with you because you’re lacking of arguments is the thing to do. If you want others some acceptance and understanding, you have to show some in first place.
I can understand that people can be tired and that someone who had a bad day is overreacting from time to time. If it happens repeatedly, it shows that there is a problem somewhere.
The thing I am certain of is that if the problem was coming from moderators, there wouldn’t be only one person affected but several.
My feeling is that it becomes a mood everywhere to claim being a victim of something and to grant yourself the right to do the exact same thing on others. And when I say everywhere it’s goes from nations wide politic to single person. Pardon me if I don’t call that freedom of speech and if I don’t appreciate to see that happening here.
Probably totally off topic, but can’t this topic just be locked? It’s a useless discussion and not about Haiku or computing in general. People wanting discussions about free speech etc are probably better off with Twitter or whatever.
Just my 0.02
Most of the moderation team is also part of the development team. The devs who are not usually wind up hearing about moderator actions anyway, sometimes even saying things like “I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that”, if memory serves. Nobody is currently “sleeping” who might suddenly “wake up” and change things here.
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It is perfectly possible to say true and correct things in a hurtful manner. Having messages be full of insults and mud-slinging is a pretty obvious way of doing that. We’re not moderating/censoring “the truth”, then, we’re moderating the insults.
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There are plenty of correct things which don’t belong on this forum. For example, if someone starts talking about the injustice of sweatshops in third-world countries, I am certainly going to agree with them that this is bad, and something should be done about it. I am also going to say that this is not the forum to talk about it, and agree with a moderation decision to remove their posts.
I loathe censorship myself. And hate speech is not a thing. Of course if folks are making personal attacks against other folks with whom they disagree and derails an otherwise constructive conversation, then there has to be a limit reached I guess.
Water marks way better than shadow banning. At least you get the message with the former. Most other sites (not Haiku) - do the latter.
Shadow-banning is certainly a deceitful tactic, it should probably be considered a form of gaslighting, even. When we suspend or ban accounts, it is always obvious we have done so.
Indeed not. So?
Also, by the way, Voltaire never said this phrase, or (it appears) anything approximating it. I would still disagree with it even if he had said it, for that matter.
There seems to be some kind of confusion about what ‘censorship’ and ‘free speech’ really mean.
Free speech is a right in any respectable democracy. But the meaning of ‘free speech’ is not the same in every country. For example, in the US, free switch means that the government can’t prosecute you for your opinions. And as of today, that includes hate speech.
On the other hand, in my country free speech means something different. It means you can voice your opinion and publish it and the government can’t interfere (no government scrutiny before publishing). But once you publish your ideas, you can be prosecuted if you use hate speech or do something illegal.
Now, in both (and many other countries’) cases, free speech scope doesn’t go beyond the relationship between you and the state. Free speech does not (never did) protect you from censorship in private organization, online communities, media, etc. You can’t claim your ‘right’ to ‘free speech’ is violated because you are not allowed to post, or your post gets deleted/edited. Likewise, any newspaper, website, TV station may reject your request for a space for your opinions if what you want to say goes against their editorial standards, or even just because. They (and that includes this community) are not violating any law (and that includes the Constitution) for rejecting, hiding, removing or editing your content.
Last but not least, social networks, forums and other virtual spaces are not democracies. They are not dictatorships, either. You have the right to express disagreement to some extent. Just don’t think anyone owes you an explanation, apology or commitment to change things to your liking. And don’t expect to be asked about decisions or to be invited to participate in decision making.
Having said all that, let me clarify that I’m not against you and I don’t know what happened in the other topic(s). I just wanted to shed some light about what is (and what is not) free speech.
Peace.
Like many said before, can this topic be locked ? or even deleted ? Let us give people time to cool their heads.
I am generally a tolerant person and I am against a lot of the modern “silencing” going on in various places. I think even widely unpopular opinions deserve to be expressed and argued for and against rather than just censored.
But with that said I have found SCollins style of communicating to be rather unpleasant, and as others have said, we are here to provide a nice place to discuss Haiku. That is our right, and as the main person who manages the money that “keeps the lights on” I think we probably need a bit of a time out here. We will see exactly how that plays out but for now I am closing this topic.
I always speak my mind. If that hurts someones feelings, then so be it. I will not self-censor because someone might be offended by what I believe to be the truth. Nothing in this world is more important than speaking the truth. Nothing.
How did I know that such an answer would come? It’s not about suppressing what you think of what, it’s about formulating it in such a way that it doesn’t offend anyone. I often have to think a lot longer about how to write something, because I’m sometimes angry or dissatisfied. The sound makes the music.
I am also in favor of truth.
But, what is truth?
There is (also) a ‘merciless’ truth!
Here there is a proverb:
Well’d Waohrheit secht, de find kien Haarbaarg!
(Who says the truth finds no hostel)
You chose to self-censor, I chose not to. I accept your decision, please accept mine.
There is nothing more dangerous than speaking the truth. You will be attacked and shamed because truth is dangerous for those that wish to control us.
This isn’t about self censoring at all, if you would like people to listen to your ideas It is a good idea to try and use a style of communication that won’t make the other party lock themselves up, essentially listening to the “how” you convey something, not the “what”.
People have countless communication styles, and they change per context too. If you wish to make your ideas known you have to adapt your style to your audience.
It is your free choice to adapt who you are to please others. I chose to remain who I am. If that do not please others, then that is their problem, not mine.
This is the last post I’ll make about this since it is sliding to far away from the topic, which was my honest opinion that the logo in question is hideous.
Learning to communicate doesn’t have anything do with not beeing true to yourself.
And it beeing “their” problem and not yours simply isn’t true since your behaviour as such seems to lands you into endless discussions about it, which definitely is your problem, and not that of other people.