BeOS PowerPC: a sad tale of Apple hardware

UAE is a 68k emulator

The PPC BFS is different to the x86 BFS for endianness reasons. There is an old filesystem addon for BeOS R4/R5 to read big-endian/PPC BFS but I doubt anyone has tried it on Haiku, if the API is even supported.

Also, I think most/all of memsons disks are SCSI2 going on the era of Mac - only later and arguably lower end Macs that support BeOS used IDE; even if they went fully IDE later.

I managed to work out why my cvs pserver wasn’t working so I no have read write access. That means I can use cvs from BeOS and also pull to my MacBook Pro and then push to GitHub. I plan to make a bunch of old code available. So I’ll post some links when I have got the code online.

For anyone interested - cvs has a file called readers and a file called writers. Logic would say to get read write access you would add an entry to both. No. That makes the user read only. I’m sure this was common knowledge in the Noughties, but none of the scant docs online really talk about this. I lucked out today by finding a link to an O’Reily Linux admin guide online with some CVS docs in one chapter. That was still only one line. Lol. So yeah - writers entry makes it read write!

Yeah, all my drives are SCSI and all are big endian BFS. If anyone has a link for the BigFS driver, that is what one needs. I guess it might also just be the Intel code compiled with all the bytes swapped, but I have a feeling it is more complicated than that.

Does anyone know of a BeBits archive? I know most files weren’t stored there though, so that might end up being pointless.

We have some support for endian-swapped BFS in Haiku sources: https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs_big (it reuses the BFS sources with some defines: https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/JamCommon#n11)

Another option may be to use NetFS to link a BeOS and Haiku machine over the network and share files: https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/netfs

I have an archive of various software for BeOS (mirrored various FTP servers I could find online) at http://pulkomandy.tk/~beosarchive (use the search bar at the top, note that it searches the filenames only). Unfortunately the owner of BeBits requested that no mirror of the website be made by the BeOS community when it was closed.

I was looking for it recently to extract the files from the BeSpecific disc 3 (the few PR1 compatible software ) and disc 6 big endian track.

The BigFS driver is on it’s author archived website
https://web.archive.org/web/20010501090954/http://www.freston.org/BeOS/

Found the link through
https://web.archive.org/web/20120306025418/http://www.bebits.com/app/690

Most, if not all, BeBits entries had homepages listed, those can still be found most of the times.

There were bfs drivers for old linux kernels too
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA008030/bfs/

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Nice! I found Joe, which isn’t pico or nano, but less hideous than vi!

Curious thread. I had one of those Macs back in the day. It is one of my only successful tales of “I needed to surface mount a part I accidentally popped off” soldering. I suck at fine motor skills, and suck ever so much more at soldering. A surface mount capacitor was knocked clean off by trying to put the case cover back on while forgetting the plastic shield (there for this reason, I suspect).

I don’t remember what it was that made me finally abandon the machine and scrap it, but it was likely stuff like this. It’s a horror to work in.

Currently, my only PPC Macs are a Quicksilver G3 with a dead PSU (I won’t be repairing that, obviously, but I hold on to it anyway), and a Umax C500 SuperMac, which boots MacOS 8.6 just fine but freezes while on the BeOS logo screen when trying to boot BeOS. I don’t know why. The Mac time settings don’t let me choose dates beyond 2019, which is … uh… irritating. I don’t know if this is hardware or software limitation. I changed it to 2017 for the time being, so the clock at least looks valid. No effect on BeOS booting.

I probably wouldn’t have even started it up again without you looking for BigFS (it was on my Intel BeOS machine, of course, but I started the Umax Mac clone anyway out of curiosity)… and then messing around with the BeOS PC after I rescued that BigFS archive, and wanting to get Haiku Beta 4 onto it… Ah… what have you gotten me onto… I’m supposed to be playing with my new analog synths! ha ha ha

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The C500 should boot BeOS fine. Mine now boots from an SD to IDĘ adapter as it is a lot easier to clone SD cards than deal with PATA hard drives. You might find it is 8.6 that is breaking BeOS. It boots best from 7.5.3 - 8.1, though I think 8.5 might work too. It you have a working floppy, you can test this by booting from the 8.1 disk utility floppy, then running the load BeOS app from the BeOS CD (or your hard drive if you copied it there). It should then boot if the install is okay.

Ahhh… Thank you! It used to boot fine, but I must have broken it by updating Mac OS 8.x to 8.6 for some reason, and then forgotten I’d broken it with that. I wonder what motivated me to update to 8.6 (sigh, probably to fix something else).

Replacing the hard drive with a card reader is a great idea. I’ve done that with most of my classic computers (with the Tandy machines demanding IDE BIOS extension cards) except for this Umax. Which SD-to-IDE device did you choose for your C500?

I can’t even recall why I have this machine anymore. Probably for the BeOS curiosity and to read/write Apple IIgs diskettes (which I think can’t be done in Mac OS 9, which was what was the oldest OS running on my Quicksilver G3, before its PSU died), as a conduit between the internet of software downloads and the IIgs (which I’ve since gotten an SD card reader expansion card put into, though that’s clumsy myself). Goodness, I have so much useless junk here from my previous life as a “computer hobbyist”.

I think the adapter was just one from Amazon. It was not expensive at all, circa £6, so around €8. I looked and unfortunately the price on Amazon is a lot more now, but still circa €20. This is a link, you will maybe find it cheaper if you look at other retailers - ASHATA SD Card to 3.5 Inch IDE… https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V7G6BJD

Thanks, I will have to take a chance with those I guess since that one is no longer available. Ha, and now I have to figure out how to change back to the US Amazon on my iPhone app :sweat_smile:

Oh my bad. It’s available in the US Amazon. Thanks again for the reference to that device.

Which SD card did you find works?

I’ve found compact flash cards are inconsistently supported on old machines, but I’m not sure about the SD stuff.

Pretty much anything, but you just need to bare in mind that the size of the disk partitions have some kind of limit. I was using 16GiB cards fine with the C500. Most of my SD cards are 4, 8 or 16 - I have 32, but I don’t think I tried it. Brand-wise, various. Most were designed for cameras or phone storage so medium to fast.

Not really important for the discussion but the first Mac Mini (G4) was introduced in 2005.

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Thanks.l for the advice. I’ll look for a 16GB card for my machine.

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Did you have any luck? My other PowerPC machine seems to have died (9500) so the C500 is now my last working BeOS computer (nothing else I own will run it natively - I have it booting under emulation on my MacBook.)

Also - your C500, does it have the cache chip? It is a SIMM/DIMM like module that is plugged in parallel to the front case and should be just under the floppy drive. Mine does not and I think it is hurting the performance. I was trying to source one slowly in the background, but I might need to try harder now.

I might try the 9500 again when I get a chance, it did this before. But it is not chiming at all so the PSU might have gone bad. It didn;t look like any of the caps were leaking on the main board, but who knows. I’m not really good at all that sort of stuff (bad eyesight) so much luck fixing it if that is the case.

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Oh that sucks! Sorry to hear it. I considered installing an emulation or virtual PC for BeOS on my Mac but I haven’t wanted to dedicate the storage space to that for a hobby OS I can’t think of a practical use for (some of the apps are interesting, like Sync Modular, but the Windows version runs in WINE on my older iMac, and I’m pretty sure the VirtualDSP USB MIDI interface sold specifically for BeOS won’t work on an emulation, as it only works in BeOS and an emulation or virtual machine doesn’t offer hardware support).

I haven’t done the hard drive replacement on my C500 yet. I did get the IDE to SD adapter though. Still need to choose an SD card. I might have a compatible one sitting around but I need to try them out.

This sounds familiar. I think I recall there being a difference when these are missing on another machine. Not sure.

Oh, this sounds familiar too! I think my Umax S900(??). Not sure anymore. I eventually disassembled and recycled(?) the components. That was probably a decade ago now. I had the RAM maxed and upgraded it with a G3 and everything. It even ran OS X. It was nice while it lasted. Had gotten it used off eBay and it came with disgusting smoker debris inside it. I told the woman who sold it to me that it was pretty nasty inside. She said she was trying to get her husband to quit smoking. I said she might want to mention that smoking is bad for computers too… I cleaned it out, but it never stopped smelling bad.

I’m no good with component repairs either. I hope you can find an easier solution to the 9500 machine than component repairs. One of the things I recall about the S900 was a need to semi-regularly clear the NVRAM via the “CUDA” button on the main board. This seemed to solve a number of “won’t start/wont chime” issues. It got progressively worse and it seemed that booting to one particular OS was a trigger for it, or maybe power loss to the machine… gosh I don’t remember anymore. It wasn’t remotely a standard config at that point, with the extra RAM and aftermarket G3 CPU. But the CUDA button would reset the NVRAM/PRAM and sometimes get it to boot again for a while. But that also cleared the clock, and various settings like boot partition (which often left me struggling to get it to boot at all, for some reason; it would sit there blinking the Mac ? icon at me).

That’s why I eventually disposed of the machine. Sometimes I miss it, but I’ve become so intolerant of tech that doesn’t work consistently.

-jace

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@Jace You have the Midi Oxygen 44? Lucky you!
Could you share some pictures of it? Nothing but what looks like a render on the archived website.
Did it come with its own drivers or was it supported in BeOS directly?

Some emulators/virtual machine can do usb passthrough like qemu iirc.

The cache on those SuperMac/Umax machines are a source of problem, I had one in my C600 and the poor machine was failing to boot way too often, the cache is also not easy to get out of its slot.

@memsom
No sign of life at all? Power led? Floppy drive? Any fans in the machine? Tried re-seating the ram?
I still have 9500 boards around, need to take pics of the last one I’m using at the moment!

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Oh I was all-in on BeOS being the “media OS”, sigh. Yep. I bought the MIDI Oxygen 44. I can take some photos, but I can’t promise when that will happen. I’m about to go on a cross-country flight and then drive with my GF. If you’re still looking for photos in about a month, come check on me again :slightly_smiling_face:

It did not come with software/drivers. It was natively supported by BeOS and works ONLY on BeOS. I don’t know how or why, but it was considered a way to do this kind of device with less hardware and at lower cost.

Class-compliance was either not yet a thing back then(?), or wasn’t done in BeOS for MIDI or on this hardware. I’ve plugged it into Macs… nothing but an ID shows up in a system info interrogation.

Apparently the OS/CPU does a lot of the work normally done by chips in a typical interface, but I don’t really know any details. You’d have to find Virtual DSP people for more info about that. I assume they have long since disbanded and moved on??

Thanks for the note that some VMs do hardware pass-through. I wonder if that would work for this since it would probably need some kind of low-level support, not just “here’s a similar class device on the host and we will show the guest an equivalent”, because I suspect that would not work here. BeOS probably needs to be able to actually see the device directly.

EDIT: Because apparently I am a glutton for disappointment, I plugged it in to my iMac just to be sure there’s no class-compliance, and I was correct. It just sits there with a rapidly-blinking power LED and Mac OS’s Audio MIDI Setup sees nothing. Sigh again.

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