This is the posts that went off into the weeds on moderating generative AI-related material here on the forum, split from https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/haikode-putting-ai-in-haiku/19685/56.
There is not a complete consensus among the moderators over whether debate over the fundamental issues of generative AI use is by-definition off-topic for a thread about a generative AI-related project. It’s pretty clear that, in this case at least, it totally derailed the original thread.
That is not allowed by the forum rules. We want to read from humans here, wether they use AI or not.
Follow the rules and you should be fine…
Yeah, it is disrespectful. It is the official position of the forum policies that you shouldn’t be disrespectful of other users, so in general let’s stay away from emotionally-loaded characterizations of other users’ choices here, please.
Doing this, however, is not disrespectful; it’s just disagreement.
As long as the topic is in the “Proprietary & Other” category, though, it would be off-topic; this category specifically allows generative AI material and is not the place to debate the morality or general desirability.
Edit: To state what I meant more clearly, it’s off-topic for the thread, which is about a specific application; debating the morals in general wouldn’t be off-topic for the category. Sorry to be unclear.
Allowing talking about AI generated software is not the same as forbidding people from talking about it…? Users are free to voice their dissent, or confusion about this sort of thing.
@x512: So far you have been the only one coming to every AI topic to moralize to other people that they should just suck it up, and some people think it’s “a-ok” and therefore they should not be allowed to talk about it. That behaviour is certainly not ok on this forum. People are allowed to discuss this stuff, even in the AI category. It’s not a blanket check for this, it just means you shouldn’t put AI stuff into unlabeled topics. (The slow mode is set on these topics for this reason…)
@bighill You did violate the forum rule once, yes, but the purpose of the rule is not to have an excuse to kick people out for using an LLM; as long as your posts are written by yourself in the future one mistake should not be a problem; No need to delete the post.
Sorry; I really didn’t express well what I meant there. I can only plead overwork. 
I meant that debating the morals/ethics of LLM use should be considered off-topic in a thread about a specific use of LLMs. If it’s not, then the same arguments will keep happening on every thread that mentions LLMs. If we’re going to allow posting about LLM-based projects, it feels unfair to not let the LLM users be able to discuss their projects among themselves in peace?
Ugh; I’m still not expressing what I mean very well; that probably means I need to think about it more too.
Regarding OP breaking the rules by using AI to write their post, it was not made clear here, but it was in the AI friendly forum - OP used AI for translation help because English was not their first language. This seems like a very legitimate usage of AI to help with forum post creation, even if technically it is still breaking the rules.
This forum category is supposed to be for discussing software with LLM generated code and proprietary software by its authors, not place for discussing AI tools itself. Discussing AI tools moral etc. concerns is offtopic here and it should be removed by moderators.
If you reject any use and interaction with AI tools, you should ignore this forum category, it is not for you.
Nah, this doesn’t only “technically” break the rules. It just breaks them. Translation tools are allowed, llms (chatbots) are not. Quite easy to understand.
No, it isn’t offtopic. And we won’t remove posts just because you don’t like them.
Then what is the point of this forum category if its authors can’t be handled with respect and should hear the same preaching?
If you see a disrespectfull post you can flag it. As for the preaching, nobody is forcing you to preach.
I am pretty sure X512 was referring to other people preaching the evilness of LLMs. 
GraXXoR’s rant was very much off-topic to the OP’s post. And that rant sparked the unnecessary off-topic discussion that keeps going. If GraXXoR wanted to let others know their stance on AI, it should have been a separate post, and not: “Here is my rant [+ an insult] … Oh, I apologize for my language earlier. I’m leaving this discussion now [deal with the flame I ignited yourself]”. Now, out of 30 messages in this thread exactly 2 address OP post. Not cool 
Sure, maybe. But it is mostly individual users who do not like this usage. It’s always the same person who tells those users to stfu and that morals don’t actually exist. It seems clear to me which one is preaching 
I don’t see how, it adressed questions to OP directly (to what they wrote)
If someone did not use an LLM and wrote something in a strange way it would be entirely ontopic to ask why something was written as such, so how would it be offtopic to ask the same thing of an LLM generated post? (the other post here about how “actually llms stole your code and booted on $arch” is certainly offtopic however, as it does not continue any of that train of though)
I wanted to add that I am talking about what happens here in the forums with discussion about AI work and any AI related topic in general.
I think the haiku policy of not accepting AI code into the main OS is entirely reasonable and a very safe/cautious way to proceed, at least until the full implications of accepting AI code become clearer.
Given that the OP’s use of AI in this thread was primarily for translation purposes. And it was stated that translation tools are ok, does that mean AI for translation is ok? Most translation tools are based on AI these days, so saying AI based translation tools aren’t allowed for forum posts would be very limiting.
Never mind, It got split after all thanks to @us3r1d
If you want the moderators to take action, you should flag one of the comments and pick either the “It’s Off-Topic” or the “Something Else” option and add a description of your moderation request for the latter.
Some mods here disagreed but I fully support what us3r1d wrote: this thread is about a specific application, it’s not a place to debate the morality or general desirability of AI. Anyone who wishes to do that should continue in a separate thread. Leaving the general AI discussion here, renaming this thread, and opening a new topic about Haikode is an option for sure, but let’s wait a bit for the moderators response to the off-topic flags raised.
The usage of LLM in the OP post has been already addressed in the comment #2, comment #3 and later on by the mods. There’s really no need to join the discussion 2 days later, and reiterate it for the fifth or sixth time. It brings very little to the discussion other then inflaming it. I hope that’s not your intention.
Please mind your words and respect the other forum members.
Can we split this discussion somewhere else?
I would rather read about Haikode.