Port of Gnome Web (Epiphany)

[X512]

@mrnhmath

My point is that letting applications draw their own window controls ia not a problem

With Haiku is is a problem, CSD is not supported at all by system GUI framework. It is possible to hide server decorations and draw custom decorations on client side, but non-rectangular or semi-transparent windows are not supported.

Wayland implementation for Haiku that is used for GTK 3/4 supports server-side decorations with KDE server decoration protocol.

[SamuraiCrow]

@PulkoMandy

So, in the end, you end up rewriting pretty much the whole app. At that point, why even start from an existing app? Just write a new one from scratch? It will be less work.

Which brings up the question of code maintenance of abandonware. If it’s not open source and something breaks after the developer gets a job with a non-compete clause in the contract… Who will patch it?

[PulkoMandy]

My personal plan is:

• Don’t get jobs with such clauses
• Ask people to release their sources (for example to HaikuArchives) when they stop working on a project
• Adopt and update existing projects rather than starting new ones. A few examples are GrafX2 (originally for DOS, I made it portable), Renga (originally Jabber4BeOS then Jabber4Haiku), and haikuwebkit (which had almost no activity between 2010 and 2014 before I resumed work on it)

[xoblite]

Thanks for porting this - in my experience it is currently the most stable and compatible browser on Haiku, with no disrespect whatsoever implied towards the others. Good work!

A few things I’ve noted though:

1. The app doesn’t currently register itself as a handler of all things web, cf. URLs, FileTypes etc.
2. Ctrl+W closes the entire window and all open tabs, instead of just the current tab as when invoked from the right-click-on-tab menu (see also Keyboard Shortcuts, where it is explicitly said to close the current tab).
3. Ctrl+Alt+D (…what kind of shortcut is that?) to Show Bookmarks List does not seem to be working. Overall I don’t quite know how to edit/sort/etc my bookmarks yet…?!
4. The unfortunately quite common issue with Haiku and its configurable shortcut modifier keys, i.e. Alt vs Ctrl (which may or may not be relevant for the above mentioned issues (?)). Personally, I think the overall Haiku default should be changed to the much more universal Ctrl, because for newcomers having Alt as the default is just confusing, and the savvies will know how to change it.
5. I actually don’t find the UI overly GTK’ish in its current incarnation; the Haiku window frame and icons go a long way to make it feel reasonably familiar (maybe this is also partly due to the UI being more minimalistic than many other examples).

My 20 cents…

• EDIT1: Why is the user agent string the somewhat vague/misleading
  Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Haiku x86_64) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.0 Safari/605.1.15 ? Is this the same as upstream?
• EDIT2: No GitHub URLs seem to work - anyone else?

[Munchausen]

Having worked for companies with non-compete clauses a few times you can:

1. When you get offered the job, tell them that you work on another project outside of the employment and need an exception added (I have done this more than once).
2. If you want to start working on a project outside of the employment after you started work there you may be able to get exceptions agreed to and added later.

Large companies often have standard forms for dealing with this. It ultimately depends on how strict they are about allowing exceptions and how strict the wording of the contract is though (the restrictions may relate only to works that are similar to company products or that are within specific domains).

[PulkoMandy]

@xoblite

Personally, I think the overall Haiku default should be changed to the much more universal Ctrl, because for newcomers having Alt as the default is just confusing, and the savvies will know how to change it.

No, because if our goal was to do something that works exactly like the other existing systems, we could just tell people to use one of these systems. This is done differently because ALT is much more easier to reach, and really should be the default. If you are not happy that there are differences, you should convince other systems to switch to using ALT as well

We understand that some people have muscle memory from previous system. these are the “savvies” who will surely quickly find that they can adjust the keys in keymap preferences. But people who have never used a computer (or a keyboard shortcut) before, if they start on Haiku, will be immediately trained with the better way.

[3dEyes]

Habitually does not mean better.

[Munchausen]

I dont understand what you mean?

I am not saying I think that companies should do this, and I am not saying there is anything better about any of it… did I write that somewhere? My opinion is the total opposite: Companies should not do this.

I am just saying that if you find yourself wanting to take such a job it’s important to know that there may be a way around it, rather than giving up on all your other projects. One example is that during my PhD I did an internship where I had to sign such a contract, but I got an exception so that I could continue work on my thesis research project while working for them.

[cosmogatokat]

A Yearly contest¡¡?

[phw]

@xoblite

Why is the user agent string the somewhat vague/misleading
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Haiku x86_64) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.0 Safari/605.1.15 ? Is this the same as upstream?

You might want to read WebAIM: History of the browser user-agent string

[SCollins]

once you’re off the clock, company has no say over your life. Courts have routinely thrown non competes out.

[TmTFx]

Moreover Alt is much easier for your copy and paste actions.
In a Terminal session if you copy text with Ctrl-C, you are asking a process “break”, which it’s not the case for Alt-C.

[phw]

macOS is also not using Ctrl, and people are moving to and from macOS and also use it in addition to other OS and manage to handle the difference. I personally think the choice of Alt for keyboard shortcuts is a wise choice. As it is one of the things Haiku does make different I believe it should be the default. But it is great Haiku offers the choice to change it.

[3dEyes]

@xoblite

EDIT2: No GitHub URLs seem to work - anyone else?

WebKit-GTK 2.93.3, github works fine

[khallebal]

WebKit-GTK-2.93.3 is still not considered stable?

[3dEyes]

2.93.3 is unstable - https://webkitgtk.org/

But works more stable than the stable version

[khallebal]

@3dEyes

But works more stable than the stable version

Let’s benefit from all that stability then

[xoblite]

Hmm, I’m using the current version from HaikuDepot, i.e. Web 43.0 with WebKitGTK 2.38.2. Do you know when/if the version you referred to will be officially packaged?

PS. https://webkitgtk.org/2022/12/14/webkitgtk2.39.3-released.html

[3dEyes]

Today I will be testing on a 32bit system. If all is well, I will publish it tomorrow (hopefully).

[csgraves]

Regarding the whole discussion around ports vs native software:

I am, at the end of the day, a user, not a developer, but an enthusiast for the sort of computing that Haiku is working towards.

I make music, I write. I play Minecraft on occasion.

I like podcasts.

So I don’t need anything super extravagant, just a nice fast single user system that doesn’t nag me and force me into signing up for more “services.”

My question, then, is if there were a sort of target user for Haiku, who is that person?

Visual artists, composers, writers, coders?

General users that just need a browser?

And on the music production front, had I the money and the skill I would donate both towards making something like a 1:1 Cool Edit Pro style audio editor/recorder, but would also love to see something a little more involved in the DAW world. Reaper? But then, that’s a port, and I would run it if available, and with supported pro audio hardware.

But I am patient, and happy to contribute in what little way I can.