in Web+ only GUI native. Webkit foreign (ported)… not from scratch…
Personally I think the opposite. I think hypertext and browsers were the best invention for the internet ever. But the zeitgeist is for web apps.
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I can not understand this aggressiveness in your answer, where did I write that working on webpositive is superfluous? I replied to your previous answer, where it was about storing information in haikudepot for native applications. To that I replied that it is difficult to define what is really a native application now.
If you had read all the answers here correctly and not just one or two, you would have known that too.
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Outperform what, quickly, how, why?
Most programs don’t need “thread pools” (I also don’t see how this is related to Vulkan), semaphores and swapchains, and developers do not want to spend hours tediously filling out post office forms, which is essentially what programming in Vulkan feels like. For them, the display features provided by the app server are sufficient and fast enough. And don’t require loading 10 megabytes of direct rendering driver on startup.
I would like to see energy spent on more productive work, such as extending BFont to handle scripts with complex shaping requirements and color fonts. Those are features which will actually help a real program (Emacs) better support Haiku almost immediately.
But I don’t have the time to do that work, so I’m not going to ask anyone to do it for me. My point is it’s just a bit too early to bother with graphics acceleration at all, much less to debate what high level graphics APIs to write drivers for.
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i really feel like this discussion is headed in a negative direction , and it’s gotten fruitless, everyone has said their piece about it.
to stop making tribal groups, it’s a good idea to stop
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A Haiku native web browser (even with ported webkit) would get us better image handling (via translators, so less bloat), better bookmark support, better multithreading, a single audio path, drag and drop images, text, links (and even video) to desktop and other apps, respect user font preferences, resizing icons, colour themes, the list goes on and on.
I agree with PulkoMandy, a native app will outclass a ported app (eventually). Native apps will do more, and be more efficient. It just requires more developers. And hopefully a sugar daddy.
However, ported apps fill a temporary void. Libreoffice, Gimp, inkscape, etc. and in this case Epiphany. I use ported apps when native dont exist, and the moment a native app becomes usable, I abandom the bloated app.
As a developer, I also enjoy writing native apps for Haiku (even large apps like a video editor). I’ve been really busy with real life during the last 2 years (company bankrupcy, new job, relocation to Europe, apartment hunting etc) so have had almost no spare time for Haiku projects. Hopefully things will settle down and I’ll have time for Haiku native apps.
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While I’m not opposed to native apps nor WebPositive in particular, I’d like to at least consider putting the effort into making an API wrapper. This would allow many of the same benefits of a true “native port” but would tackle the situation with all Gnome apps at once. It would be accomplished by making a custom linker library of GTK and its headers that would, in turn, call the Haiku gadget set and APIs. There’s always a chance of failure with such a plan with incompatibility and debugging being the most likely culprits, but without looking into the GTK sources it’s difficult to predict the outcome.
“Native” is not about APIs, it’s about user experience. It’s about having apps designed with the OS specificities in mind. I don’t care what language and framework and tech you use (provided it doesn’t bring 100MB of dependencies for an app that should weight kilobytes).
So, yes, sure, if you want to write your app with GTK (why would anyone want that, I don’t know?), go ahead. But expect complaints if you don’t use translators, don’t handle extended attributes, if your menu is 2 pixels off, if your icons do not follow the syleguide, if the buttons in your BAlert (or equivalent) are not in the right order, and so on.
And if you think you can reach a satisfying integration like that starting from a ported app, well, I don’t believe it, but I could be proven wrong.
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:: sigh ::
You’re probably right. Web+ might be the only app that gets proper royal treatment but it’s central enough to justify the efforts. The rest of the Gnome apps aren’t worth it. Thinking back, there was an API wrapper attempt before the Wayland wrapper was written and the attempt was unsuccessful.
Which hrev to download to test Beta 4 with Web (Epiphany) right now?
The developer tools and API documentation though pretty darn good needs to be improved with more sample code, etc.
I’d love to see some WalterCons held throughout the globe that could facilitate knowledge sharing and learning between Haiku coders and end-users.
Would be great to see Haiku code sampler of the month demonstrating Haiku API capabilities with a simple and easy to understand code example(s) even to the point of highlighting proper coding styles, etc.
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I don’t know what WalterCons are but I agree that a lot knowledge could be transfered from coders to end users. For example imagine some total newbie installs Haiku and wants to install software. How should that person know about HaikuDepot? (But at least a person on Haiku has it easier than on Linux or BSD imho.)
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By reading Haiku´s excellent user guide 
, especially this section :HaikuDepot
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Yeah, sure, your are totally right, but I mean a total newbie who tries to use Haiku the first time and without reading the doc. It’s always easy to say “rtfm”.
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I always make a point to say it in a more friendly way ;-). And besides that, Haiku´s user guide is really worth reading, much better suited for beginners than the average GNU man page.
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For beginners, and even others, there is also Tipster that could be improved with more tips and more translations.
Yeah, I agree.
That’s good thing. I didn’t notice Tipster yet.
Perhaps then the people who would like to have more documentaries should create them. Of course not everyone can do everything, but if you sit down and describe certain things that you know well, then that is an important and good enrichment.
You can also send your articles to our knowledge base, which we can then publish there.
There are videos for many things, but in some cases written instructions are a bit more precise and understandable, since you don’t have to repeat certain sequences over and over again
I think that the user guide can definitely use some help, you can also contribute your experiences here.
A total beginner will see a Welcome and a User Guide shortcut on the desktop after installation
But we all know that many do not read them, even though they are clearly visible ;-).
This browser is working!
I am fascinated about the speed and the stability of it!
Works on Haiku 64bit hrev56630 very well.
on 32bit I cannot get it to work atm.
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