You are confusing two different keys here, which is why this thread exists. Apple users are MORE confused than PC users since Haiku’s OPT is not the OPT key on their keyboards, but COMMAND.
So you accused me of being wrong when I was not. Good of you to admit it.
@leavengood has admitted that he was wrong. He has remapped the keys in macOS preferences.
Then, honestly, if I were to connect a normal, pc keyboard, what would turn up to be the function of the “Win” key ?
(aside, for me, calling a key “Super” brings memories of Sun workstations…
WIN would be COMMAND and ALT would be OPT.
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If Haiku swaps those in that way (kind of the opposite of the dumb way I think macOS handles PC keyboards), then I agree with you that we should fix that. Which I guess is why people keep suggesting a checkbox in the Keymap or Keyboard preferences to choose a PC or Mac keyboard. As I noted having the Cmd key (the primary application shortcut in Haiku) as the middle key is dumb, just like it is for PC keyboards on a Mac by default.
If we fix that then maybe it makes sense to just keep that called Opt in Haiku in menu labels and documentation, etc.
In your proposed solution this would be the case? Because I am quite sure that is not how things work now. As I noted having a default situation where the primary shortcut key is in the middle is bad.
No, no, no!
Either go the Apple way which requires 2 changes, or the PC way which requires 1.
Apple: Rename ALT to OPT and OPT to COMMAND.
PC: Rename OPT to WIN / SUP / META.
Even though the Apple way requires 2 changes, I prefer that one. It keeps an existing and descriptive naming scheme that is relatively well known and that is easy to understand, compared to the PC way that requires an unoptimal naming of the “WIN” key with names that is neither descriptive of its function nor well known (except for “WIN”, which I really do not like).
They can be swapped in settings just like macOS.
Realize that it is impossible to make a perfect system because of the difference between Apple and PC keyboards. We can only make it as good as possible. Renaming the keys to something that makes sense is the most important step.
No, I didn’t confuse anything here. Now you got confused yourself 
Which just underlines my argument.
Have a look at your macOS screenshot above. There are from left to right CONTROL, ALT/OPTION and COMMAND. In Haiku those are currently named CTRL, ALT, OPTION.
It’s the second key I was talking about. You proposed to rename it OPTION in Haiku. That’ll be confusing because it reuses the name currently given to the third key. Keep the name as ALT and there is no confusion. Neither on macOS nor PC keyboards.
The third key could be renamed.
Tangential comment : we are refusing names of keys based in dislikes of some company or other. People who want to try a new OS do not ( mostly ) want to engage in economical/political problems of those companies. so to make it easier for everybody, even if not perfect, a way to simplify understanding the keyboard based on what is written on the keyboards they have would be very nice.
Or maybe send people who want to try Haiku a free Haiku-branded keyboard ?
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Understood. Yes, this is very confusing…
I disagree. It is good on PC keyboards but not on Apple keyboards since not all of them have ALT written on them. Whatever is decided, we should not go a hybrid way again (mixing names between Apple and PC). Either full Apple naming scheme or full PC naming scheme.
And also because it is not a descriptive name of what the key actually does. There is no good naming when going the PC route. That is why I prefer the Apple naming.
People mostly accustom things with their physical location when it comes to keyboards. Haiku Alt is not PC Alt, it is Mac Command. We cannot name it Option. It is command. Whatever written on PC keyboards should not concern us, it’s merely a label.
PC Ctrl: Ctrl
PC Win: Option
PC Alt: Command
IMO, this should be the naming principle, taking physical locations into account. People won’t care as long as they know that Haiku follows a Mac like physical layout, they will just use PC Alt location instead of PC Ctrl. They will know that it is akin to Mac. They will know that the selling point is the easy thumb access.
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I agree completely @bitigchi.
I think the only additional wrinkle here is that if people are indeed using a Mac keyboard (though probably unlikely it is possible) then there should be some way in Haiku for the user to easily indicate that (or maybe Haiku could detect it), and then the keyboard layout should properly match the Mac keyboard:
Mac Ctrl: Haiku Ctrl
Mac Opt/Alt: Haiku Opt
Mac Cmd: Haiku Cmd
From what I’ve seen here in this thread so far, Haiku currently puts Cmd where Opt/Alt is, and Opt where Cmd is on a Mac keyboard. That just never makes any sense. If we fix that I feel like most of the confusion goes away?
If we also then know that a Mac keyboard is being used the menus should use Cmd for the keyboard shortcuts (where a Windows keyboard would use Alt in the default layout.)
Documentation would still use Cmd, Opt, and Ctrl as the logical descriptions of meta keys which could be mapped to various physical keys depending on the keyboard.
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To summarize the situation in terms of PC vs. Apple physical keycap labels (English):
USB report:
bit in USB report: 0 3 2 (spacebar) 4 7 6
bit name: left control left GUI left alt (spacebar) right alt right GUI right control
Corresponding label printed on physical keys:
PC - ANSI: Control Win Alt (spacebar) Alt Win Control
PC - ISO: Control Win Alt (spacebar) Alt Gr Win Control
Apple: Control Option/Alt Command (spacebar) Command Option/Alt Control
As a user, my preference is just to be able to have the menus display what’s physically printed on the keys (regardless of the operation in Haiku) – even if that means just typing the words (or symbols) in Keyboard settings myself.
I have argued that we should look at this from the perspective of users and the documentation. I have used the term logical for just that reason. This is because the keyboard mappings and interface names can be changed in software, while the documentation cannot (think printed documentation, or pdf).
I like the Apple naming scheme for logical naming in the documentation. It would require no change for Apple keyboards and is descriptive. It would only require a note that OPT is ALT and COMMAND (or CMD) is WIN on PC keyboards.
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At this point… I’ll be happy with just “Alt Gr”/“Right Alt” having a separate “key role”, so “Right GUI” has the same role of “Left GUI” instead of it doing nothing, and AltGr being hijacked into “right opt” (default preflet Keymap setting for Layout: “Generic 105-international”, keymap: US-International).
Edit: I guess that’s my sorest point… the right “Option” keyrole being shoehorned into “AltGr role”. Separating those would go a long way, IMO. “Right Opt” != AltGr… Right Opt is Right GUI, and AltGr is always “right Alt”.
I don’t think MacOS’s shortcomings should be dragged into Haiku:
don’t ignore the Control key.
So:
Control should handle application hotkeys, while
Command (OS/Win/Super) Operating system hotkeys.
Option (Alt/AltGr) would be the third level of the keyboard layout.
So:
need to fix wrong recognition of Left Alt and Left Win in Haiku.
Also, don’t forget that Mac keyboards have the Alt and Cmd keys physically swapped compared to PC keyboards.
In this way, everything would be as it should be: clear and consistent.
Other problems: how the hotkeys are displayed in the menu and documentation and whether the OS should automatically respond to the type of physical keyboard (PC or Mac) connected or leave the selection of the key position (Cmd and Opt) to the user, I think is a secondary and additionally discussed question.
The easiest thing to do, it seems to me, is to show the hotkeys in the documentation and in the menu in the same and standardized way. Where they would be on the physical keyboard could only be seen after launching the keyboard settings app. The location of those keys would depend on the keymap and each user’s personal preference.
In any case, the documentation for the Haiku user will need to explain what the keybard key is called in the Haiku system and how it relates to Mac and PC keyboards and what other names those keys are called. It will also be necessary to explain to the user how he can adapt the position of the keys to his needs (no matter what type of keyboard he uses).
I don’t think any automatic action is needed from Haiku’s side due to different type keyboards being connected. The Haiku keyboard settings app should show the keys where they are physically located. And leave it up to the user to decide what is more convenient for him: PC style or Mac style or something else (the user should move the control buttons himself as he likes in the keyboard settings app).
I have argued that we should not care about how other operating systems are using the keys. Instead I have argued that the keys should be mapped as intended by the keyboard manufacturer. I have written several posts about this. In short Control should control, Alt should alternate, Command should command, Shift should shift (invert), Alt Gr should alternate character etc. That way it makes it more intuitive.
If a user wants to command the printer to print, then its COMMANDp. Print to file? That is an alternative function of print, OPT (ALT) COMMANDp. Undo? COMMANDz. Redo? That is an inverted function of undo. SHIFTCOMMANDz.
The mappings in Haiku is a mess and needs a lot of work. But lets ignore that and fix the naming first.
Alt and AltGr should do the same Opt (alternate graphic or symbol) — this is the original idea of keyboard manufacturers. The separation of AltGr from Alt is a misstep of PC users.