My progress in porting Wine

Software
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Hmm… installed Mono with wine_bin 9.7. Shows in menu. Ok.

Downloaded manually… tested with Wine 11.7
wine-gecko-2.47.4-x86.msi
wine-gecko-2.47.4-x86_64.msi
wine-mono-11.0.0-x86.msi

Successful installations.

NOTE:

  1. There is a possible installation issue with the recent wine-mono 11.1.0 release with Wine 11.7. Use Wine 11.8.
  2. Opera 131.0.5877.5 - this web browser does not work with Wine (uses Chrome engine).
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one thing escapes me how do you manage to compile wine x86 in haiku x64 without errors due to lack of gcc libraries on x86?

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What nephele said before. It is currently non-functional on Haiku and will require patching to work but it can theoretically work.

Also, to note, this recent change means wine ships a single binary that takes care of both 32bit and 64bit, before that it was a separate binary for each. Earlier versions of wine on Haiku only shipped the 64bit binary.

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Yes, Wine WOW64 would need adding extra support to Haiku kernel for running 32 bit code and patching Wine ntdll to use this new Haiku kernel functionality. It is not implemented yet, so no 32 bit applications support in Wine for Haiku yet.

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For the developer(s) for Wine, I would love to see updates with a list of target applications that you are trying to update Wine to be able to run.

I see that a version of NotePad works. I LOVE those kinds of updates where you tell us what new programs can install and run with Wine and would love to see a list of target apps that are the most important to you with a rating of the chance of success where

  • Program One is VERY important but current a lot has to be done to get it working so it would get a rating of 1 because of the amount of work and that it won’t be for a while or great while before this app with work

Meanwhile

  • Program Two is important to me and there is very little I have to do to get it working. I just have to make a few updates (maybe listed) to get it working. Note that the list of what is needed to get working might get picked up by someone with the skills to fix that so that you could move on to harder things? But this would get a Rating of 10 as “very likely” and “soon”

Meanwhile

  • Program Three is a program that is important to me OR the community that has been asking for you to get Program Three program working or you personally want Program Three working. Either way, it needs more work to be done than Program Two but Less than Program One so this might get a Rating of 5 for “Medium amount of work” with “likely in the next X number of weeks or months

While all the other updates are great. I think updates like this will be the most benefit to you because people will see something “concrete” to relate to and will MAYBE be willing to fund that work so that you or someone else can devote more time to it.

And while you or someONE or a group that is interested may not get to it right away, you could ask for what programs people would be most interested in having it working with Wine in Haiku.

All of the above might already be somewhere but I am only see this space.

I don’t know if you could collaborate with other groups working on Wine for other OSs. I know of one group that specifically works on Wine for games to work on Linux. Maybe someone could start a parallel project (or you start it) specifically for games.

I think that ALSO has the possibility of getting funding IF there are clear targets as to what is being looked at to be ported.

I know that my list of programs and games may not be the same as anyone else’s, however. Here is my very short list that I would be MOST interested in. Keep in mind that I would prefer a native program and game similar to what I’m listing but when that isn’t an option, Wine might be a faster way to what I want.

  • The last of WordPerfect BEFORE they switched to using Visual Basic for their scripting. While part of my job at the companies I worked for as a programming for 40 years included programming in Visual Basic, the scripting language created by WordPerfect and updated by Novel and Corel was SIGNIFICANTLY better in easy of creating the scripts therefore I played around and worked with HUGE scripts of over 10,000 lines in a script. For example, I wrote a WordPerfect script that convert numbers like 9,432.67 into Nine Thousand Four Hundred Thirty Two and sixty-seven cents. It went from one cent up to 99 million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine nine hundred ninety-nine and ninety-nine cents.
    • Admittedly I wrote a program in C which created those lines of code which I then copied and pasted into WordPerfect. This was in the middle ‘90s when I worked for a bank and their program for leases didn’t go up that high so I quickly wrote it in a couple of weeks which was the requirement they had to get the lease and I couldn’t have written the whole program that looked EXACTLY like the program they had spent a TON of money on which couldn’t create legal documents for any amount over $9,999,999.99.
    • I was mostly through with this before I contacted the company that owned WordPerfect at the time and let them know what I was working on and I quickly got bumped up several levels until I ended up talking with a team of programmers that maintained and improved upon the scripting language. They didn’t think their scripting language could run that kind of script in a timely manner until I sent them my completed script and they were surprised how quickly it ran AND that it could run at all.
    • All praise goes to that group that created and improved upon the scripting language. Not to me.
    • Despite my skills as a Visual Basic programmer I only wrote in that language because I HAD TO because it was part of my job. It is an FUGLY programming or scripting language compared to many others I have programmed with. Therefore my PROFOUND enjoyment working with WordPerfect’s scripting language is what caused me to attempt it and complete it. The ugliness of VB as programming language which I never enjoyed, despite working on projects that were bigger than this project with WordPerfect, of which I worked on quite a few, would have stopped me before I started on it and I would have let the bank lose that lease. Who wants to work on a program where you HAGE the programming language even if you are good at it (that’s what others told me, not the other way around)?
    • The bank never asked me to write this. I just was in a meeting where someone brought up “the problem”. They never looked at me and asked me if I would attempt to create it because the timeline was ridiculous.
    • Why not just have someone type this up and be done with it? Because the company that wanted to do this lease and came to my bank to ask for the terms has PLENTY more leases that they wanted to do with us as a bank if we could do it with “reasonable terms”. So they got a LOT of business because of what I wrote in WordPerfect. And note, I used WordPerfect because I could EASILY replicate the look and functionality of what the bank were using for smaller leases. And that is WHY I want the last version of WordPerfect WITH WordPerfect’s scripting language and NOT the versions with VB which could work as a side result of getting this to work.
  • Scrivener which is a program that is used by people that do ALL of the writing for a LOT of AAA movies, for books, for plays, musicals, etc., where you have a lot of different information that you want to store all in one place and nothing else really does it.
    • By “store all in one place” I mean that you create tabs vertically on the side of the program where each tab can hold ANY type of information.
    • For instance, one tab for each character in a movie, play, musical, book, whatever
    • One tab for each scene
    • One tab for ANY kind of information that you need/want to store as part of your “project”. It can be text or graphics or video or … well I’ve never run into anything yet that it can’t store in a tab which you can’t refer back to at some later point.
    • Note that each chapter can have its own tab. And the chapters don’t have to be in order.
    • And then when you tell Scrivener to “compile” X tabs in exactly what order and it will do that. And it lets you convert it to pretty much any file type that you need to convert it to.
    • THE biggest names in movies, plays, musicals, books, etc., use Scrivener and the templates that comes with it to create their projects and they note that it made creating those projects a lot easier than any other program they had ever used before.
    • It’s POSSIBLE you might get some of them to start using Haiku because of its speed as an OS if it could be made to install and run on Haiku. Just saying.
  • I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW (repeat a BILLION times) that we have LibreOffice and Calligra that runs in Haiku. But I literally started with Lotus 1-2-3 back in 1982/83 with version 1.x and early versions of DOS. Yes, I’m old, get over it. Like with WordPerfect the scripting language for Lotus 1-2-3 vs Excel (I’ve cover VB and my feelings for it already) was SIGNIFICANTLY to MANY MAGNITUDES more enjoyable than VB. I played D&D in the ‘70s through the ‘90s with friends in person on a table then moved to computer based D&D games (which often didn’t follow D&D rules … cough cough TSR I’m naming YOU). We had ALL of the Advanced Second Edition Books for D&D and I put EVERYTHING from ALL of them into Lotus 1-2-3 and made it so you could have a separate sheet for each character. The character sheet looked like the real character sheet and you just starting typing the name of whatever and the spreadsheet used ALL of the information to adjust your stats for using that item or spell or whatever. And it was ENJOYABLE creating that which is why I did. And it made me able to create COMPLETED characters in less than 10 minutes vs more than an hour for one of my friends who has less information than I did.
  • And I was able to make it so I had a history of ALL changes after a certain point in creating my character so I could always look back at what it had been around a certain date just in case I messed something up. And it was easy to flip between my characters (usually three or four that I “controlled”.
    • Due to the ugliness of VB I never would have done this in Excel. Yes, if you want to learn Visual Basic which 99% of Excel users never learn, then you can create very powerful spreadsheets which I was tasked to do for a bank and later another organization. Knowing how and being good at it doesn’t always mean that you ENJOY it.
  • It IS true that if you ENJOY something you will want to do it even if you don’t need to just for the fun of it. That sums up WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 for me vs other programs where I was good and a very advanced user/programmer while hating the scripting/programming language for that product.
  • 3D Games.
    • I MUCH, like many, many times prefer 3D first person games over 2d games. I just do. I RELATE to them better because I live in a 3D world and my mind just creates more endorphins running 3D games than 2D games. Your mileage WILL vary. And that’s fine. I’m just me and you are just you and neither of us are better or worse.
      • Note that I didn’t say 3D First Person SHOOTERS. Back in my 20s and 30s I enjoyed the heck out of those games (I’m using nice, polite words) but now, well now while Enjoying Baldur’s Gate 3 a LOT and having played ALL of the main characters ALL the way through to the end with surprises that I did not expect AT ALL. I have spent more than double my time playing 7 Days To Die, a post apocalyptic game which is designed so that you fight zombies and every 7 days those zombies go berserk and attack you in your fort that you have built. The higher your level the more zombies and the more powerful zombies that attack you.
      • However, I have hacked the game so that any zombie that appears has a health of zero so they are dead on arrival. I can use an axe (or whatever) and chop them up but that isn’t my main interest in the game. I use it as a sandbox to explore and find items which I can combine and build into things. OR I can build buildings out of earth, wood, metal, or concrete with plumbing and wiring and furnishings, etc. Or I can take bombed out buildings and repair them. And I can build and drive around in vehicles. THAT is what I play the game for. NOT for killing zombies. I’m bored of shooter games and I just want something that REDUCES stress instead of creating more. I have enough stress already.

Anyway, that is what I would like to see in future updates and the exact programs that I would LOVE to have the ability to install and use in Haiku which would go a LONG way into letting me use Haiku as my MAIN OS and one that I would ENJOY more than the many other options out there. And there are quite a few options out there and are worth it IF you really enjoy using them. Haiku is not quite there for me but these would go a LONG way into making that come true.

If you don’t like what I like. I’m fine with that. I have no ego in this. I just wanted to explain WHY I want those programs vs others. And YES, I could learn how to use other programs but it would take the years of knowledge that I already have with these programs that I use on another OS already. AND I’ve tried pretty much EVERY option out there for WordProcessors and Spreadsheet programs. And these are the ones that create the most endorphins for ME. Okay?

As far as the “arguing” between two people in this thread. Take it to another thread that doesn’t involve this and resolve it. Either find a middle ground or agree to disagree and be done with it. The rest of us really don’t want to hear/read/see/etc any of that.

Your argument is like (name any talk show) where they tell you about a subject and then have two or more people “talk” as in argue about the merits of both sides but NEVER resolve anything. That’s what your argument is to me. Take it somewhere else.

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While I technically want the Mono and Gecko installers to work, I always found that part a bit odd. If Mono and Gecko are required for full functionality, I think they should be included with the Wine install. The user might not even be connected to the internet when he is trying to run Wine, so the installer part can get slightly problematic.

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@Sabon As far as I understand what you’re describing (working on making X/Y/Z application start on Wine) is what the Wine maintainers do when working on the whole code base. With every new version app compatibility grows better and larger and things like that.

That is not what the Haiku port is actually doing, our port is directed at “teaching” the Wine code to speak to the Haiku internals, the work is incomplete however and some (but not a lot) of the functionality Wine requires of the system is faked or ignored at this point, hence the lower compatibility with apps compared to Linux Wine.
Completing this work requires a skilled programmer that is familiar with the Haiku internals and able to patch both Haiku and Wine as needed, when that’s done the differences between Haiku Wine and Linux Wine when it comes to functionality should be close to zero.

The good news is that we’re not that far off when it comes to 64bit apps, many of them should run fine already, as some of the screenshots above can tell you.
The bad news is that 32 bit support is non-existent and 16 bit apps don’t work either. Both are likely to require much more work to get running.

I’ve personally come around to the Mono and Gecko install issues, they’re not required for basic functionality and they can be manually installed.

Still, even if this new version is in a better place than the current Wine package on the depot, there’s still a major roadblock to pushing it to the repos: me and @cocobean are successfully compiling and testing it on nightlies, but @Begasus is unable to make a package in Beta 5 due to some… permission issues it seems? (Compiling on Beta 5 seems to work however)

As Begasus is compiling and packaging many complex apps and libraries, like QT, KDE & related, I find it hard to believe it’s something related to his setup, it’s very likely that something in Beta 5 is interfering, which would mean the current buildmasters won’t be able to make a package either so Wine 11 wouldn’t reach the Depot in its current state. At least Beta 6 is getting closer and that will probably solve this issue.

Anyway, today I have updated the Haikuporter recipe and its patches to Wine 11.8. I had to tweak a couple of things here and there to get it compiling, but none of the changes should improve functionality compared to 11.7.

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Thanks on working on this, still have no clue (yet) why packaging fails in INSTALL where it works for others :confused:

If some people could confirm succesfull builds/packaging on beta5 I guess we could send this to the buildmasters (when ready) even if it fails for me.

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Sorry, what’s the URL?

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There is no package yet for @MichaelPeppers work, it’s in a PR at haikuports. :slight_smile:

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Don’t forget the BoxedWine, PCEm, 86Box, VMs for 32-bit x86 app support whether MacOS or Windows 95/98/ME.

Overfocused on 32-bit Windows support on Haiku x64 versus getting various Windows x64 apps working on Haiku. Too many 32-bit Windows apps to support once we reach that level on top of the support of the 64-bit Windows apps. Mind blown… or a fuse.

I made good progress testing various 64-bit Windows apps. I have a personal Wine 11.7 package and was working on the a Wine 11.8 package. But, that ties up time doing that. I’d like to just see various productivity apps work on Haiku from Windows 8/10/11 x64. Keeps things simple - versus testing over 100+ x86 games from 30-40 years ago… :rofl:

.

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32bit apps are actually not old and still widely used like everywhere. For example, even if the Steam app itself is 64bit, the Steam installer is 32bit. No 32bit, no way to install Steam.

Even if that wasn’t the case I’d still push hard for 32bit support, but I’ll say that since 64bit is close to working fully, I agree the focus at first should be on that.

And to be clear, I’m not “overfocusing” on either 64 or 32 bit, that would require me having the skills to further the port, I’ve just been updating the port (which requires much less skill than improving it) and stating what works and what doesn’t.

All this app testing is not that useful beyond fancy screenshots either way, we already know support is incomplete.
Still, you’re welcome to make those screenshots, maybe they will convince somebody with the right skillset to help out.

And VMs, BoxedWine etc. add way too much overhead. I’m not interested at all in running 32 and 16bit stuff through them. A fully-featured Wine port will always be superior to those options.

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I think it is going along better than I expected. Mainly, I started testing what is mentioned as working in the Wine Apps database as a safer bet.

Steam: Making sure you're not a bot!

Selected Test Results

Steam.exe -no-browser
start steam://open/minigameslist

For any Windows app, it makes sense to just know what works and doesn’t work before false expectations. I mentioned certain apps I wanted to test but a few of them I run through IceWeasel on Haiku or natively so this wasn’t my shovel to bear.

As for audio tools, I was motivated about OpenSound and now haiku’s MediaKit. Kernel patches to support 32-bit Wine in Haiku x64 from the Haiku devs is another feather,

So, we shall see. If not by us, then future wizards pushing the ball. Snapshots tell their story, but maybe coding is the way…

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Regarding installers there is Innoexctract that might help with some of them .. Haven’t tried it though Haiku Depot Server

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Innoextract works with gog installers but both Steam and Gog Galaxy are not the same format unfortunately.

I spent some time toying with dosemu2 today.

screenshot1
screenshot11600×900 77 KB

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Thanks for all the people doing great work.

Please keep criticism technical, not personal

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Had me going for a while there. “emu2 can’t do that!” and then “Oh wait, its dosemu2”. :grinning:

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All this talk about wine makes me want to try it again. :slight_smile:

I would really love to play unreal tournament99 on Haiku, but wine32bit support seems to be one of the initial problems.

A few months back I managed to successfully port the SDK Unreal 99 code, but without the maintainers explicitly providing support for Haiku for the private code they currently have legal rights to offer, … the only way forward would be for someone more experienced than I to request from them an offer to be a Haiku maintainer for their side of the private code. Way too scary for me to even think about. :stuck_out_tongue:

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For UT99 I’d suggest porting SurrealEngine instead. I tried it last year and it didn’t work but it may be fixed now.

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And wine requieres dxvk at least to run remnant from the ashes and some older Windows games.