Haiku totally sux

You know… a looooong time ago (22 years ago (over two DECADES!), wasn’t it?)… we thought we’d have a copy of BeOS R5 eventually. And, to this day, we still DON’T. Why is that? Because, over time, new stuff kept getting added… and things got broken… and more stuff got added and things got changed… and other stuff broke. Year after year… decade upon decade… and no one seems willing to admit that the cart was put before the horse for SOOOO long, no one knows how to get the mess straightened out.

When you have enough people thinking in the SAME direction (like Linux/Ubuntu, etc.), you can get things done pretty cohesively. But Haiku has NEVER been like that. We’ve had a mass of people, all doing their own thing, and trying to cobble together the end result. Guess what? IT DOESN’T WORK. Oh, sure… you have an Operating System, that is scattered across several different platforms… with pieces that BASICALLY function as they should… but is it BeOS R5? Nope. It’s technically far beyond that point, but what we have is not even a finished product, not even a clone of an ancient OS… it’s something beyond and yet still unstable. Something far better and yet far less usable.

The frustration factor (over the course of decades) is what has finally driven me to barely even being interested in it at all. Why? Because I know that for every two steps forward, there will one step back. As it was in the beginning and so it continues.

Haiku R1 was supposed to be the equal of BeOS R5. But we kept getting distracted by the next shiny new thing… and kept adding and changing stuff forever. Instead of having a clone of BeOS R5… a point of reference that we could say, “THAT is where we started improving upon it and making it far greater!”, we have something that should probably be equivilant to Haiku R3 (I’d assume, over the course of 22 years). Instead of setting specific, attainable goals for each revision, we keep moving the goal post ad infinitum.

Honestly, at this point… what is Haiku R1 supposed to even LOOK/FUNCTION like? Will we ever REACH R1? We keep talking about it, yet it’s like a mirage… always before us, but never reached. Why can’t we reach that goal?

Because we never stop wanting the next, bigger/better thing. Trust me… as long as you keep striving to keep on top of the latest technological “thing”, you’ll NEVER reach R1.

We should have simply said… “Duplicate, in Haiku, what BeOS R5 has.” STOP! That would have been the FIRST goal. Done! Achieved. Permanant stake marker in the field. THEN, from that point forward, we set specific future goals… remove obsolete hardware specs and add the next set of newer hardware. Each improvement (revision) removes any obsolete hardware and adds the next set of improved hardware AT THAT POINT IN TIME (2005, for example). For example: ISA → PCI ->AGP → PCIe. And IDE → SATA → PCIe (m.2 NVMe) And so on. But stop chasing technology. Set a line in the sand for each revision and DON’T budge! Doesn’t matter if it’s not the latest/greatest… you can get to that (maybe) in the NEXT revision.

Instead of having people constantly complaining about broken beta nightlies, we could be directing people to full prior revisions that work. Completely. Beta nightlies should be a part of developing the NEXT full revision! And THEN you can tell people to stop complaining about broken nightlies and to go use the last full, working revision, until the next one is finished! But Haiku doesn’t HAVE that!

So, instead of complaining about people complaining… why not do something sensible and stop giving people a reason to complain. Give us a full revision that works completely, for what it is. If it has to be older processors and motherboards and USB 2.0 and older hardware… so be it. But give us something we can say “This revision of Haiku is completely usable.” Hardware that works. Drivers that work. Software that works. It may be on hardware that is 5-10 years old… but at least it’s usable and reliable! And we can take pride in that.

I know I sure would.

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What a criminal sentence. The things you’re attributing to Haiku are exactly why Linux on desktop was never a thing.


What do you mean “Linux on Desktop was never a thing”? Uh, if you use Linux or Ubuntu on a desktop computer (or in a “desktop” (non-business related) environment, as I use Windows 11 or MacOS), then it DOES exist. Or are you referring to some version called “Linux on Desktop” that was never created?

I looked up (Googled) “Linux on Desktop” and found this… very informative, actually:

I use Manjaro Linux as my desktop OS. It may even be better than Windows but that’s not saying much when the rest of the industry props up Windows with 3rd party drivers for the OS of their choice instead of ours.

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Man, all these developers deliberately making buggy releases!

I for my part am allowed to complain, your post isn’t setting any realistic goals and I fail to see what it adds, at all.


that’s exactly what the nightlys are for, to point out mistakes, to test changes. they are developer versions. to have a stable haiku use the beta.

and yes haiku takes a long time to finish, and it will never be finished, because it has to be adjusted again and again, e.g. to support newer hardware, to attract new users who wouldn’t get by without certain programs and ways to do their things.

alpha 4 was very stable and supported most of the old beos programs, which was very close to beos r5. But those who don’t keep up with the times will be left behind.


I use Ubuntu (Xubuntu to be precise) and I thought “It’s cool but what if we had an OS that would have a more coherent design, beautiful look and would be good to tinker with”. And then I thought “Wow, Haiku is exactly that!” So for me your Ubuntu/Haiku comparison is not true.



I find the comparison with Linux strange. The Linux community can’t even agree on whether or not to support Wayland. KDE Plasma still doesn’t support Wayland. Haiku is an actual desktop OS, with one “desktop environment”, and should be compared against other desktop operating systems.

Haiku does have some major flaws, like the reliance on C++ and the Unix heritage, but those were present in BeOS as well.

Well, now the question is, what are you going to actually do on this hardware? MorphOS went this route and it doesn’t seem to be working out for them.


Hello, please go over all the tickets currently in the R1 milestone and tell us which of them you think can be moved out to a later release.

This will be more useful than ranting about how the developers have no idea what they are doing.

What should we have not done? Wifi support? Usb hotplug? A web browser with rodern css and javascript maybe? Support for any hardware manufactured after 2001? Surely no one need these things since BeOS R5 didn’t have them?

Or maybe the problem you have is with things like RISC-V support, that was largely developed by someone who is not part of the Haiku developer team?

22 years to get where we are is not that bad for a project with mostly 0 paid developers. If you add up all paid contract it amounts to maybe 2 or 3 person-years of paid work? What did you expect from that? This project is stupidly over-ambitious from the start and that’s what makes it interesting but also very long.

Anyway, back to hacking on things on my own personal projects so I can have fun during my week-ends and be accountable to no one but me. Have a nice week-end too :slight_smile:


You’re being purposefully dense. Linux is irrelevant in all non-server related metrics, and this won’t be changing anytime soon for the reasons you wrongly attributed to an actual operating system.

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BeOS can and in fact does run on machines from late 2000 (Core2 duo is probably as far as it can go). It would need an infinite number of patches and hacks but it’s feasible. It has severe limitations, one for all the lack of a modern browser supporting TLS (crypto ancienne could partially fix that).
What’s the purpose of using a verbatim feature-for-feature replacement of BeOS in 2022?
No Wi-Fi, XHCI, SSL/TLS, and this list can go on ad libitum.
Haiku is a great OS and a miracle as far as I can tell. It stays relevant and usable nowadays like no other replacement attempts.
With some caveats it can run on modern machines and be used for many workflows. Not for all and not for everyone but it can.
If you miss one or more applications that Haiku 32bit can’t run then get an old PC and use BeOS, instead. Or run it in a VM.
Haiku does not suck for sure. It’s not mainstream but it’s great if you can live with its limitations.


Hello old BeOs and Haiku fellow,
in your post I read a lot of disappointment and frustration, why Haiku is not there where it should be!

The reason is simple: Time moves on and we all have to learn new things. In real life we keep up with knowledge we need to know. We cannot know everything what other people know!

My idea is to get Haiku to be used in Universities and Schools to learn programming and basic Computer knowledge.
I would be happy to harvest the low hanging fruit first to get satisfied for now. Students will become Haiku developer and program what they need to study…

Usable professional Software will come later, one by one!

Haiku is very stable at the moment and is near a R1 release!
But for professional work it cannot be used as is.
But for programming as I said!

Is not there, it is simply not there now!

BeOs was the same, it could be used for programming but not for professional work like grafics-design, pre-print work and Video editing nor 3-D developement (we had Blender 2.11 very early) but it is still not usable!

TuneTraker’s radio brodcast software is still missing some important features to keep with other professional brodcasting systems, atm, They even seem to look for a alternative OS because Haiku is not there where they need Haiku to be.

Haiku’s Media Kit is not touched and needs a major rewrite (overhaul), that would be the next step, and a lot more steps are needed.

Your disappointment and frustration is because you love Haiku too much!

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If you want something exactly like BeOS R5 and not something that evolves beyond why don´t you just use BeOS R5? It works, you can be sure that nothing gets modernized, you just have to find an old machine that R5 still works on, I´m sure you can still find some of these old machines on ebay.


Simple counter question:

If we old hands are gone in 20-30 years, who would have anything from Haiku if it was BeOS r5 on state 2000?

No one

I wonder, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but would something like Simon Peter’s Appimage be an appropriate and even possible way to make more software available?

I wonder where Haiku would be today if Mark Shuttleworth had of picked it for his pet project to keep him off the streets.

A man with half a billion $ can make things happen, & pretty fast…

it’s simple - if you’re not enjoying using Haiku, don’t stress yourself out by trying to use it anyway. Life’s too short. Do something fun!


Haiku does not suck. It works well for many. :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes. Development is slow. That’s what happens with hobby OSes. Windows and MacOS have full time paid developers. Linux is the mainstream and most popular free (open source) OS with many developers worldwide working on it and the applications.

Haiku could’ve been done in 3-4 years if they had $5 million to spend on developers but they don’t. Also, the developers want to create a full OS and not something basic or minimal.

Take a break from Haiku for 2, 3 or 4 years and check back in once in awhile. You’ll feel less stress and better.


I don’t see how this relates to the topic of this thread or how it can make more software available for Haiku.
AppImage is a way of packaging self-contained applications with all its dependencies in one file.
Very much like how MacOS does.
In MacOS an application is essentially a folder with .app extension that the Finder sees as on executable file, in fact the folders contains everything the app needs to run. Including external libraries.
If you use the Terminal you’ll actually see a folder and be able to navigate through its structure.
They are two different philosophies, one one side we have a package management system that takes care of all the dependencies and the version requirements. It installs all dependencies automatically in a centralised manner and updates them without the need for repackaging and distributing the whole app.
It saves space on disk, makes update process easier but there is a risk of breaking something when dependencies are updated.
On the other hand we have self-contained apps, they contain all they need and work by design with that specific version of the included dependencies (libs).
Different apps can use different versions or even revisions of the same libs without affecting other apps.

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Talking about BeOS, about 20 years ago, a friend gave me an original CD of BeOS R5. I like it so much that it become love and hate. I Installed/uninstalled so many times that I had to cut my hand to avoid wasting time. I ended up throwing the CD in the bin not to be tempted to use it again. I loved the OS, but could do nothing really productive at that time. Seems very similar to Haiku now, but I am a lot older and technology has become cheaper, I can afford to buy a second hand laptop just to play with it and giving it plenty of time to grow.
Otherwise I fully second you that it can be a good platform for learning basic programming and computer knowledge.

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