You got to remember that the Haiku developers had to pretty much write the operating system from scratch with a little bit of help of some BeOS inspired open source components. Also, the goal has always been to create the natural successor to BeOS that supports near 100% backward compability where possible and not fuss too much with the UI/UX that would deviate from the look-n-feel of BeOS. The Haiku developers have pretty much accomplished this. Of course along the way they have had to deal with supporting new hardware technologies, etc… so to at least support modern computers. I am amazed by what they have accomplished up to this point to be honest. As for bringing in other types of folks who are good at things beyond coding an OS that helps evangelize and ‘sell’ the virtues of the Haiku platform, I am with you on that, but it’s hard to find such folks willing to do that for free and on their own time, but those type of folks do exist. I don’t know how you go about finding such folks
dcatt: I don’t think that it is realistic to expect a person to come along and promote Haiku for free. The goals of this project diverge from the normal wishes of any person who does that type of work, but this is clearly not understood by the people with whom I have conversed here. I have definitely seen that this is a programmer’s project foremost, with programmers in control. When that happens, it becomes like Apple in the early 1990’s. You can all look up the history. People are not going to make themselves slaves of the engineering department. I hope that is obvious enough.
Wow, this is genius, why didn’t anyone think of it before?
Oh wait, this is how Haiku works for as far as I remember. People cannot simply make changes to the code. They go through a painful review process where members of the existing development team will make sure everything is correct in the code they send. Whenever you have made enough changes, and reviewers go “oh, another change from this guy, I’m wasting everyone’s time by reviewing it because I know there will be nothing to say”, one may get direct access to the repository. And even then, the code is reviewed on a mailing list when changes are made.
We also recently set up Gerrit, a tool that is designed exactly to handle this. You can see all the changes currently going through this process at http://review.haiku-os.org. This tool is also used by many other projects, including the Android team at Google. The very popular Github and Gitlab forges which host many open source projects. They use the concept of “pull requests” which is roughly similar.
I’m not aware of any open source project which would accept random contributions from outsiders without review, anyway.
Then, there is the possibility that someone would take our sources, add bugs or otherwise change it, and make their own things. We allow this, but the result cannot be called “Haiku” (we own that trademark). As a result, we protect our identity and brand name, and people associate the Haiku name with our high standards for code quality and cleanliness - and our lack of releases.
No one is “in control” here. If you contribute enough to the project, you get your right to vote like everyone else. This is not an “in theory” thing, there are existing project members in this case. It just seems to be that Haiku attracts developpers more than anyone else.
[quote=“PulkoMandy, post:63, topic:6393”]with our high standards for …
our lack of releases.
Maybe we should add this joke somewhere on our frontpage.
It is not a joke I fear…
You’re right it’s more auto derision than a joke.
I am sorry, but my impression of JPRATT is not someone who wants Haiku to advance for the betterment for all, but rather someone who wants to have some control of an OS to feel important. As pointed out, if he knows a better way to run the OS he can fork the source code and start another branch himself. No-one is stopping him.
Instead he tries to tells people how bad they will feel if he does such, and much better his approach is but we will be sorry if we do not listen to him because another company will make money.
I wish he would go ahead and fork Haiku. Time and time again someone shows up thinking taking over the project would be an easy task, we are talking about an ENTIRE OS. For some reason people do not realize how much work an entire OS represents.
If JPRATT is honest he can try writing code. If he can’t write code but can raise money he should talk to people and make contacts and then share them with the Haiku people.
But again I get the impression he wants to be in the middle in such a way that all communication has to pass thru him so he can control things.
Instead telling us what to do, he should tell what he can do for us.
These two statements you made contradict each other:
“Time and time again someone shows up thinking taking over the project would be an easy task, we are talking about an ENTIRE OS.”
“If he knows a better way to run the OS he can fork the source code and start another branch himself. No-one is stopping him.”
“it’s funny… because it’s true!”
Not by any logic I can see, except perhaps that which resides in your head alone.
As a recently returning r5 vet, I wouldn’t have it any other way! Haiku as both OS and community has dramatically improved from the old days, albeit a bit rougher around the edges, and a bit smaller. Releases are over rated in a way. The attitude of “Ask not what Haiku can do for you, but ask what you can do for Haiku” has remained steadfast since long before Haiku was called Haiku. Many of my heroes from back then are still active on the project. I’m happy to see that.
All of these things show me that Haiku has a mature operating philosophy even if it is not yet a mature operating system. Y’all give the world a solid inch, some folks demand a mile, and I’ll be over here happy that its an inch and not a millimeter. Cheers, and thank you!
You all are a bunch of nasty trolls on here. “except perhaps that which resides in your head alone” is such a nasty thing to add to a comment. All of you do this type of thing all the time.
I have talked to multiple people who interact with this community and they say that you all are just like this. I have even found a comment on Ars Technica that said this a long time ago. You are all nasty losers who have computer science degrees. I pray for your children if you have any.
BULLFROG, YOU TROLL: IT WOULDN’T BE A TRIVIAL MATTER TO FORK, BUT THAT IS IMMEDIATELY WHAT YOU TELL EVERYONE TO DO WHEN THEY DISAGREE.
Why are you still here then? Do yourself a favor and leave.
^ This is pure gold.
I am here because people keep talking to me, computer science troll.
This guy in another thread is saying, “hey guys, PLEASE DON’T ATTACK ME, but why is BootMan now called BootManager. PLEASE DON’T ATTACK ME.” He knows that you, Kapix, or anyone else on here is going to rip into him for something TRIVIAL because you live for it. You all live to attack people who post here, even when people would be a huge asset to the project.
HAIKU: The open source project run by self-saboteurs and jealous fiends.
I’m beginning to think this guy is clinically insane… Here’s what Bullfrog (the same as he has been attacking as a ‘troll’ here!) actually said in that thread:
“I’ve missed a lot of news due to my extended absence from the community. I have a simple curiosity that’s been bugging me. Why the switch from BootMan to BootManager? Was this a functional upgrade or simply nominal?”
Does anyone else see any fear of attack in that passage?[quote=“jpratt, post:73, topic:6393”]
I have talked to multiple people who interact with this community and they say that you all are just like this. I have even found a comment on Ars Technica that said this a long time ago.
If you’re going to make statements like this, you’re going to have to provide some cites. Judging by your record so far, nobody is going to believe a word.
Just because you don’t understand what people say in the subtext of their words, because you are bad at dealing with people, doesn’t mean it isn’t in the words, computer science troll. This is, after all, the issue that we are talking about, that all of you are bad at dealing with people, even people who help you.
Take it from a conversation someone had with WITH DANE SCOTT UDENBERG.
“EVERYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THEM.”
Oh dear, it looks like if he read something, he hears a voice in his mind that tells him it means something else.
Suddenly, because we will not follow his plan we are nasty trolls! I think someone needs to read a dictionary to find out the meaning of the word “troll”, I think the quote from The Princess Bride applies here.
It also raises the question if he had talked to so many people who had negative things to say about the Haiku development people, then why is he here and why does he stay.
So it does not matter what you tell him, he reads what his mind twists the words to be.
One thing is very clear, this is not someone I would want to talk to people about Haiku.
He would tend to drive people away.
If you all stop referencing me, I will leave. Deal? Stop mentioning me and I won’t show up here.