This is odd, as they are both use qtwebkit for rendering. It takes 2 second to launch both QupZilla and Otter here (hot start) in VMware Fusion. As for the user agents it should be fixed in qtwebkit AFAIR. Right @3dEyes?
It is… isn’t it!? but it really feels slower than otter and defenetly slower than web+, although web+ never renders a page in one go, even the simplest google page.
Hopefully will @3deyes fix the remaining issues in qtwebkit & Qt too, like the crash in otter.
For the last few months I have been running Haiku only on my laptop.
My desktop was running windows 7 and only ran my monitor at 1920x1080 despite I have a monitor/TV that supports 1920x1200. Last week I downloaded the latest window driver and after a number of trial and errors finally got it to work at full resolution.
Since I was doing the yearly backup/clean-up I also install the latest Haiku, to my surprise when booted I go the full resolution on my display. No work involved.
I have problems with Haiku, but it still is better for most things I do.
You need organization leadership that is going to raise enough money to hire people.
The problem with this project is, yes, that there is no money for manpower. But also, let’s say I wanted to help you with that… who would I talk to in this organization if I DID want to raise money for Haiku to help you hire people? You have no one as a point of contact.
There are no contacts. There is no structure. People do not have defined roles. While that may make sense from a development standpoint, it makes Haiku look disorganized and a mess, which frankly it somewhat is.
Major projects have points of contact, people who lead the overall site. No one wants to do that. No one wants to take charge. Everything about Haiku reflects this. You all need to look inwards, at yourselves, to ask why things do not move forward as fast as you want.
The TuneTracker company is a great resource. What a good pitch he has on DiscoverHaiku.com. Are you guys even aware of that? He is even selling USB sticks with Haiku on it and probably not making a whole lot. Meanwhile, Haiku is NOT selling USB sticks. Why don’t you link to that company on the main site under “Get Haiku”?
You can’t all be a bunch of programmers who don’t pay attention to this stuff. If that’s what you want to be, someone with his head in the sand, you should recruit people who are not. It’s ok if you want to be a programmer only, but you should have that defined role and make sure you are not getting in the way of people doing this sort of thing.
You don’t have anyone like that, someone who will take the lead, and so people post stuff like , “Haiku do you have any hope”?
Have you been on the Haiku Inc. website? Or are you trying to say that developers, who work on the project in their spare time for free, should maintain some sort of a legal structure?
Sorry, but what would you put on those USB sticks? Nightly build that is not guaranteed to be working properly?
It takes time for an operating system to evolve and this maturing process can’t be defined just by money and manpower. Do you think Windows did it better in 32 years of development with 50+ millions lines of low-quality code that gets almost impossible to maintain? I have an i7-3667U unit and still can’t run Windows 10 smoothly without frustrations. I believe that this “bunch of programmers” succeeded in re-creating a concise self-contained operating system that BeOS used to be. In addition, new technology and modern features were nicely and seamlessly integrated into the system. I’d say this is quite an achievement and a huge advantage over Windows and Linux-based systems, where you might easily end up having your workflow completely broken after the next update.
Yes, Haiku is not for everyone, but for some people it might be the only sane choice. It brings back the value of personal computing and can greatly optimize your workflow. BeFS, Filer and GUI scripting gave me huge automation cababilities that no other system could.
It’s always easy to tell people what they should do in their free time, but that won’t help the project in any way.
What stops you from raising the money and hiring developers to work on Haiku? Why do you need Haiku Inc. for this?
KapiX: I am not an extraterrestrial and it actually matters to me that I have social contact with organizations to which I am contributing. Why aren’t you asking the reverse question: why would I think Haiku is worthy of my valuable time to raise money for it? What about Haiku would make a person want to expend time and work to make it a success? This is why you can never get people to do things for you-- none of you identify as part of Haiku, but instead as a bunch of onlookers. I don’t need a pep talk on how to help people, Kapix.
What’s wrong with the donate button at the haiku home page? What kind of social contract are you seeking? Haiku is a registered non-profit organization. What kind of point of contact are you lacking? Have you tried contacting anyone?
Bullfrog: people are complaining, on this thread, that Haiku needs manpower, so that it doesn’t “lose hope”. If you are going to have manpower it costs a lot-- tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, which cannot be achieved with the donation button.
Programmers here, who have never raised money outside of Google Summer of Code, where the requirements are small, are obviously unfamiliar: no one is going to help you out of the blue with hundreds of thousands of dollars if your organization is a total mess, with no one to talk to.
Yowane: I think most of us are in agreement that Haiku has achieved a lot of efficiency over other comparatively bloated operating systems. But now the problem is that people still cannot use it for daily use for many types of tasks that they need and this has gone on for several years. The issue people have raised is that there isn’t enough manpower. Haiku is, unfortunately, in a perpetual rut and it sure looks like there are fewer contributors than ever. Well, to fix this, everyone is in agreement that lots of funds need to be raised to hire programmers. Here is an issue: no one knows who is in charge of that.
The only people I really see complaining about it are the drop-ins checking it out every so often or for the first time. As for the single point of contact, I found email@example.com listed on the contact page. Could Haiku use a big infusion of cash? Most certainly. Does it really need it right now? I don’t think so. Keeping the development core small and tight knit is one of the upsides I see to the project. A quick scan of the currently active development crew shows me a decent sized list of the original staff with some newer folk dedicated to the core operating system philosophy. I think a big financial gain right now would diffuse focus on the core philosophy that makes haiku great. Perhaps when it reaches the beta milestone. But I’m not sure acquiring big funds needs to be a priority right now.
Lets look at facts.
i am, actually, quite happy with the pace Haiku is progressing. It’s slow enough that I can keep track of things, fast enough that it isn’t stuck in the 90s.
We actually did raise enough money for me to work full time on Haiku during 1 year. So yes, people are ready to donate to the project in its current shape
It is not up to the devs to set up things in that area. We don’t know how to do it and we are not interested. So don’t expect things to come from us. Haiku is written by people who think it is worth dedicating a little or a lot of their free time. It should be advertised in the same way. It just happens that no one seems interested in volunteering there at the moment.
Haiku is usable already. It is my main operating system and I’m much more efficient with it than with anything else. And there is work going on for the few last things that make me reboot to windows (lack of an office suite and web browser limitations, mostly)
So, if you are willing to help, what we need is not talk on the forum. We need contributions to the website to update it and have relevant information there. Think we should advertise “discover haiku” there? Go ahead, edit the page and include a link!
We are just a bunch of programmers. If no one else joins the project it will stay this way.
This is really helpful, to get this perspective from you as one of the key developers on the project.
The original poster said this on this thread:
“HTML5 support is bad, browser experience is too bad, local video player experience is too bad”
“I just want haiku to respond to regular use of normal Internet and video entertainment, which should be the basic requirement for all users.”
So either he has not updated his browser, doesn’t know which browser to use, or something else is happening-- possibly there are issues that need to be fixed in the code. In any case, something is not set up correctly because he said that he “loves Haiku” and cannot get what he wants out of it, as an average user.
It also looks like he is not alone, because I see this elsewhere.
When I hear that, I think, “then we need to get some people on this project full-time who make sure that users who say they love Haiku are happy with what is happening on their computer.” This is not, I suppose, an open source project mentality that a person comes across very often, but I think more open source projects should have it.
As a programmer and someone familiar with the innards of the codebase, you may feel like all is well, but I actually had trouble getting the screen resolution to change under VirtualBox (just one example) and I am relatively advanced as a general computer user. For Haiku to be an alternative, it really needs to iron out all of these issues. It needs to someday be able to sit on a shelf in a product box. It is that which seems like it would be another decade and people get frustrated because of that.
This is when the discussion turns towards getting greater financial support for the project so that Haiku could someday sit on a shelf as a product. After all, BeOS did! It shouldn’t take this long unless there aren’t enough people. If that isn’t your area to solve problems, I won’t say anything.
It is fine that people do show interest in Haiku and want to do more with it as you can do at the moment. But please think about it, that Haiku is in alpha state. The developers want to make a rebuild and over this a better BeOS, but this need much time that they does not have, because they have all his own jobs (>75% of the day), familiy (<15% of the day) and sleeping (<10% )…
So you can think about the time who is left for the hobby Haiku.
People like KapiX are long time devs and you should think about your posts before you press on add.
If you want to help, you can start your own projects if you can develop, or writing tutorials, articles, you can help in the forum to spend some time to read questions and aswer if you can. If you want to port something you can start a project site to collect people to help you. If you need money for it, ask for it by the people here if they have interest into it.
The Haiku docs needs help, our knowledgebase need help and much more.
Lelldorin: I am planning to do some work on the website, so that is what I hope to do. Thanks for your post.
You have missed the point. There is this common misconception, I think I see it in your posts, that Haiku Inc. runs Haiku project.
No, that is not the case. If you want social contact with organizations you are contributing to there is IRC channel and mailing lists where devs hang out. Developers drive this project, not Haiku Inc. We are in this sense, a direct democracy (where the pool of people are developers, not users). There is no one person that says, this has to be done. Everybody works on what they want to work on.
Do you think that’s wrong? That there should be a boss? No problem, if you pay people you can tell them to do what you want.
If you set up a company that hires full-time Haiku devs, you would have basically the same status as Haiku Inc. The only special thing about it is that it holds the trademarks.
That’s why I asked you what do you need Haiku Inc. for?
Haiku Inc., is an NPO set up to be able receive donations and funding and allow distribution into the various teams actively working on Haiku and fund the haiku-os.org domain as a common single point of contact for all the Haiku teams and donation point of acceptance. This was the general notion I remember from WalterCon 2004, when the Haiku name was unveiled directly after Haiku Inc. was born. This seems to be the current general modus operandi of the group. The community and codebase has progressed greatly since the early days, so I think it’s working.
The question that I have for a long-term Haiku developer is really, are you bothered that it is possible that it would take a decade before Haiku becomes a product that could be sold on a shelf?
Not unknown to all, many open source projects have a reputation for having issues in usability, difficulty in set up for the average user. Many produce frustration even for experts. So to me, any developer on Haiku should really not be indifferent to this issue or the fact that there is not a path to a final Haiku product in a lengthy period of time. There are some examples of projects that have release schedules. They are more rigid as a corporation, they have a hierarchical structure.
Open source projects only truly become widely-used like Mozilla, LibreOffice, when they get financial support from a company or individual, like Canonical provides Ubuntu. I just propose to you that developers and long-term users here should have a different standard than what has gone on here for a long time. What is unsettling to me is that it doesn’t really matter to a long-term Haiku developer that he spends so much time on this project, despite it not having a clear path, in a long amount of time, to becoming a final product. If this does not bother you, I suggest that your standards, as a group (and individuals), are low.
Many people in the open source community have expressed frustration at this, notably Bryan Lundake, who was a fan of BeOS in the 1990’s, but people inside this project do not want to hear any criticism from anyone. All of these posts by people saying that everything is ok are rubbish. That is all they are.
The original poster on this post should not have received any criticism on this post and should have received an apology from one of you.
Yes you are right but there is no market for haiku at the moment. Who should see in haiku (alpha state system) a system for a market? If you know someone taking part of haiku to use on a big market, try to contact and discuss.
Haiku is single user
Haiku is not a server system
Hardware support is not acceptable
It is fine people would see haiku for more. If you want to make money with haiku (open source), go on. Write a killer app and bring the user to install and use haiku. Or you write a good program for haiku and sell it. You can create your own distribution (watch the haiku rules about it), collect developers who make your work for money… All is possible.