Appeal to the Haiku Developers!

Software Native
1

Dear Haiku developers.

Up to the ABI/API break four/five weeks ago, i used the 32 bit version for all my daily tasks. I need a alternative browser (qupzilla) for managing my NAS (openmediavault) and my mailserver (communigate pro) because web+ does not very well. For non working pdf files with bepdf, i also use qpdfview as an alternative.

For word processing scribus and lyx should be the apps for my office tasks or maybe better calligra if possible.
All this programs does no longer work and for me haiku is therefore no longer usable as a native daily desktop os.
For that reason i stopped updating my system and test newer hrevs.
Would it not be better to bring QT framework to look and feel like the haiku os, as 3deyes started here:
https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/qt5-by-threedeyes/5633

I pretty sure, that no one will develop a haiku-only office suite like libre/openoffice for us, but we could have calligra.

So please help humdinger to get libqt4/5 and the affected binutils running again.

Thanks in advance.

Joerg

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Itā€™s all done! Calligra has been packaged; so has Telegram and KolourPaint.

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I really have nothing to do with Qt building/packaging. I just gave it a quick try and gave upā€¦ :slight_smile:

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Are you sure, iā€™m talking about the 32-Bit version of haiku? Do i have to change the standard repositories to anything else?

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Theyā€™re only available in the 64_86 repo for the time being; donā€™t quote me but I think there were issues compiling against the 32-bit libraries.

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Actually Qt5 was fixed on 32-bit as of the day before last, so all should be OK now. Not all apps may be rebuilt yet though.

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Not so bad and hopeless.

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The builds at that link are made automatically. A new build should get kicked off tonight or so which will make those.

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Lan72, waddlesplash: thanks a lot for your help. You and the others developers are doing a great work at Haikuports. :beers:

Just to make it more visible, there are a lot of work being done at Haikuports, and the new automated repositories, for both gcc2 and x64 arch. The new repos have about twice of packages available (about 3900 for gcc2, and 2900 for x64).

Again, thanks for your awesome work! :slight_smile:

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All i can do is, to repeat what un_spacyar said:

Again, thanks for your awesome work! :slight_smile:

Nice weekend to everybody

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Iā€™m not against user proacively trying solving things but iā€™m fully against sharing hpkgs.
You know, haiku and haikuports building hpkgs in a controlled environment, so we have absolutely no idea what did you used to build this packages, what did you changed and plenty other privacy, security and platform dependant questions.

Haiku isnā€™t HaikuPorts, just TRY to understand that. The Haiku Devs ARENā€™T responsible for HaikuPorts Packages.
Providing OWN built packages on Haiku forum doesnā€™t helps. It makes thing worse.
Do we really need to answer all the questions why YOUR packages not working anymore?
Do we need to answer all the questions why YOUR packages got removed because an update?
Do we need answer any question about YOUR UNCONTROLLED packages?
Do we need to do anything about YOUR packages?
Answer: nope.

But the users could think we donā€™t let them get the newest greatest, because you provided downloads, so they are for sure available. However, they doesnā€™t have any information, what everything could go wrong because packages from uncontrolled sources and why these packages not available in the mainline. (Inb4: it have reason. It have always a reason.)

If you try to help, then try to educate the users, but please, PLEASE do not share HaikuPorts HPKGs here!

Just please, donā€™t do that.

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oh, and dear users: PLEASE, never install any package from uncontrolled source, like forum or emails.
The Haiku system is read-only, but an uncontrolled package could be a serious security problem as it can run any script to blacklist binaries and replace them with own provided ones.

Maybe @Lan72 donā€™t try to get your bank accounts, but who knows? Can we ever be sure?

And besides the security problems an uncontrolled package can create serious problems at the system update. Who are responsible in this case? @Lan72 forgot to inform us about that.

Maybe iā€™m alone with this, but i clearly think, this is a Haiku website and not a HaikuPorts website. That one have an own site, and i think almost every HaikuPorts related topic irrelevant here. Sorry, but I still canā€™t see the point talking about HP here.

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Iā€™m with you about the risk for installing ā€œunnoficial binariesā€ (not only in Haiku: in almost every other computer environment).

But just want to say that your post maybe sound a bit rude :wink: (could be wrong: Iā€™m not an english native). Lan72 probably just wanted to help.

And finally, in the Haiku forum always talked about apps or thinks not necessary related to the OS itself (for example, still are a section related to BeOS). Sincerely, I donā€™t see another place to discuss about HP (of course, Iā€™m not talking about bug reports, or that kind of things).

Just my 2 cents!

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English is not my mother tongue, if i was rude, then sorry.

As i told, i have nothing against promoting new software, but can you or can somebody really count how many dependencies the Qt software have? A small change in the underlying layers can brake the hell. Who are responsible?

If some package breaks everything should we say to the users: go to /system/packages, search for the problematic package, open it with expander, check for the author and nag him?
Is it realistic for you?
Is it realistic if they cannot boot their install anymore?
Is it realistic, if they starts to get a huge amount of spam?
Is it realistic if their home network attacked by their own computer?
My experiences is : users coming here and nags devs, makes noise, complaining about ports completly irrelevant here.

Users are good.
Users are god.
Educated users yet better.
But have you got resources for public relations in this case? How would you handle situations like erupting hell because of unofficial packages? Do you got time for that? Does it makes any sense in the frame of the Haiku development?

It makes me tired, for sure.

Users comes with different mindsets. They thinks, everything in HaikuDepot somehow deeply related to Haiku. They think the Haiku devs responsible for mplayer. They think the Haiku devs are responsible for Qt apps. Can you imagine how many abstraction levels are between this 2 levels? Can you explain where everywhere could be the problem?

Ofc, in linux distributions they can go to the distribution developers and complain, as they more or less only responsible for the usefulness of the provided software but they rarely changes anything in the kernel and in the drivers. They just compiles them with different switches or at ubuntu-derivates they only prvides the extra packages and backgrounds. (Hail for them nevertheless.)
This absolutely not comparable with the Haiku project. But the users educated so, so they come to here and complaining about that.

XY doesnā€™t work anymore!
It is crashing!
Something changed!
Why it is changed?
Why the devs changing thing before they checking if it is OK?
The devs changing things and broking another things!
Everything is broken!
You guys sucks.

Umm, so, how would you handle these complains?
Do you want to solve their things?
Does Linus solves userland things?
Does Linus takes complains about broken userland things in an unrelated linux distribution?

It is just some question and i let you to decide how would you handle them. You absolutely donā€™t need to follow the way what Linus declares, it is just a mental-game. But somebody needs to handle the complains. And my gut says: Haiku canā€™t be repsonsible for the whole universe. And for the seals. I like seals, you know.

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miqlas
Many thanks for the words of support, however, they are more similar to tiresome lessons. Have especially encouraged words about bank accounts. Iā€™ll know now where to put my talents. Thanks for council. English too not my native, and differently I would tell more definitely.
And so - yes, I will consider your remarks.

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Maybe so, but security is an important problem and it is always a good idea to remind users about the best practises here. Even if Lan72 is just trying to help, this sets a precedent in making people think they can safely get a package from the forum and install it and be fine. And if people get used to that way of distributing software, someday someone will abuse it and spread malware.

This is why we have to strongly remind this to people: always check where your packages come from and think twice before installing. Do you trust the repo owner?

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Yes. We also have this warning in the user guide on the Repositories preferences page.

I donā€™t agree on removing all links to HPKGs posted on this forum. It should be obvious that there are risks installing software when the source could be compromised. Thatā€™s why we have repositories, so you only have to evaluate the trustworthiness of the source once and not for every package you download.

As long we allow to install HPKGs that donā€™t come from a repo (and who wants to do away with that?), thereā€™s always the chance someone got a broken package from somewhere. With all the resulting support difficulties this poses.
ā€˜Censoringā€™ links only in this forum doesnā€™t solve this potential problem.

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No censorship, our users are grown-ups and we want to leave them in control of their OS. Want to break everything by installing random software from dubious sources? No problem! Want to enjoy the latest bleeding edge stuff that may have bugs and regressions? Great! However, we also have to educate them about such issues. So a little reminder next to the package download links is a good thing.

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I completely agree. Others have flagged the post to have the links removed.

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I agree with all of you, what you sad about security in haiku. One should never use sources and packages from non-authorized repositories. I also have not used the ones from lan72d. But iā€™m sure, he wanted to help.

But what iā€™ve done, i tried out the new testing repository from eu.hpkgā€¦ and had some trouble with it. I better open a new tread for that.

BTW: Some said, that is not the place to discuss the haikuports, whereelse should talb about it?

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