All these missing libs

1

Alright, I’m almost spamming the forum but please bear with me, it’s only day two in Haiku-week…

So, I’ve downloaded a lot of apps and not one of them works. They all miss some libs that I guess, I could browse around haikuware to find.
However - this makes me think.
The default Haiku image has like, 10 MB free - they won’t fit in there anyway. Will it work installing all these libs on the extra parttion, and if so, how the heck does the system no where to look? Are there any good description of how Haiku actually works and defines it’s environment?

I would however suggest to have more libs installed default, it’s kind of depressing when none will work out of the box :wink:

2

I guess you could try those apps from Haikuware, which are confirmed to work on Haiku (see the comments). Do not forget, that most of the apps were written for BeOS and very few for Haiku itself. And since Haiku is a work in progress (Alpha2 should be out tomorrow hopefully), many Beos apps do not work at all.
And finally a kind request, if you try an app from Haikuware and you find out that it does not work in Haiku, please comment it, so new users will know whether it works or not.

3

It is realy a problem with the libs…
same to header files and libraries in general…

Most games you need to install SDL Game libs…
for the webpositiv Browser, wait for the alpha 2 release… tomorrow…

4

yep, someone needs to make a BeOS software compatible distribution of Haiku with all the libraries and working BeOS apps on it so there won’t be this frustration.

about storing the libraries on another partition… what you could do, is remove /boot/home/config/lib make a symlink there pointing to your custom /lib folder on your partition.

installing:

http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/development/class-libraries/sdlgamelibraries-gcc4

may save you some headaches running newer games.

There’s also this monster package:

http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/system-files/shared-libraries/haikuports

But, it’s a bit older, so when you’re installing it, you may not want to overwrite any newer files already on alpha 2.

5

Hi elwis!

I don’t think you can blame Haiku if a 3rd party app doesn’t include all needed libs or doesn’t mention the needed libs. Of course a reason for that is that most of them aren’t maintained anymore and were just grabbed and put up at Haikuware.

In general, this is how libs are handled: First come libraries under libs/ in the application’s folder, Then comes what’s in /boot/home/config/libs/, then /boot/common/libs/, then /boot/system/libs/.
So if you’d like to try something, you can - maybe first create a lib folder - and put the library there.

Regards,
Humdinger

6

On the contrary, we can and should blame Haiku. It wouldn’t take much to make the ‘beoscompatibility’ package mandatory, and make sure that Haiku include legacy and native libraries so that the hundreds of available BeOS and Haiku applications would ‘just work’ seamlessly. BeOS went out of its way to make sure 3rd party apps work, Haiku seemingly not. Without a package manager to grab dependencies, Haiku should include the most common application dependent libraries, not let ordinary users try to find them.

Name a single user to me, that wants to spend hours downloading and unpacking all these packages:

http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/Downloads

Or one day download x package because application y needs it, the next day download package b because application c needed it - and so on and so on. Total non-sense!

Don’t like being a fatty? Offer an optional package like Haikuware does that combines all HaikuPorts’ files into one installer.

http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/system-files/shared-libraries/haikuports

I would much rather add 240.5 mb to Haiku’s girth to have an Operating System that works out of the box with most software than answer hundreds of emails about why x,y, and z application doesn’t work, and where to get x,y and z library. Bandwidth and disk space are cheap these days, it isn’t 1999. If users prefer to download each package step by step, let them be miserable.

Perhaps mention in the docs (or add a symlink to the file in Haiku itself) that one should install this single Haiku Port package for BeOS/Haiku library compatibility/support. The user installs it, then watches as >90% of their present and future dependency problems disappear in one step - maybe Haiku will be ‘simple to use’ then.

The amount of native apps developed in the past few years, and especially since alpha 1, can be counted on the fingers of your two hands, and will likely remain that way until R1 and beyond. This should be reason enough to support legacy applications. Haiku even has problems including libraries for important native apps like WebPositive that it advertises and takes donations for. Then when you go to download it and run it, surprise, missing libraries.

Where will users look for Haiku files therefore? The User Docs & Google. It’s nice to have Haiku mention both BeBits and Haikuware as a source for Haiku software, but, isn’t it a contradiction in terms to make the ‘beoscompatibility’ package optional then?? Google will return page rank 6 websites BeBits and Haikuware. So, here we have Google and Haiku forwarding to websites that offer files that won’t run under Haiku because of missing oplibraries and an ‘optional’ compatibility package. As a new user, it would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth and scare me away from Haiku rather than attract me - even Linux fairs better in this topic’s regard. So, IMHO, I think Haiku should try a little harder to solve this problem - Haiku shouldn’t sabotage its future success. Applications pave the way to an Operating System’s success, not the other way around.

I guess this is when people start thinking hard about distros…

I started Haikuware in 2007. Back then, Haiku’s goal was to achieve ‘binary compatibility with BeOS R5.’ That meant, theoretically, that almost every application on Haikuware should have worked on R1. Somewhere along the line, the little description of what Haiku is that graces the top left side of their website, lost these words. I hope that it isn’t too late to fulfill these goals and reverse some of this damage.

When users and developers say, why does Haikuware have incompatible software on their website, don’t they care? Ask not Haikuware, but Haiku Inc.

I aplogize in advance if I offended anyone, it’s not my intention. I know Haiku isn’t done and is a great group of volunteers. Given the time, energy and resources I put into Haikuware and BeBits, I hope my frustration is understood.

re: Humdinger: “were just grabbed” - actually, it was a daunting task importing and scouring the internet for over 2500 files. At least Haiku users have a reliable place to download applications to play with. I hope some users appreciate the service instead of complain all the time.

7

I agree, for example what about KDE applications?

8

I think that there is some confusion on who is responsible for installing Libraries in Operating Systems.

Beos never included libraries by default.

Sites like bebits.com hosted them.

If I decided to play some SDL Games, I would install SDL, then the Games.

This is true on Beos, Haiku, Linux and to some extent Windows.

Haiku is only just at Alpha 2 stage and in terms of compatibility with Beos works with the majority of applications, some need a bit of tweaking to make these work, others do not.

Once Haiku is R1, I’m sure someone from the BeosMAX or now HaikuMAX team will release an image packed with items for those who need all the libraries, applications and games included.

9

I agree with you too.

Maybe the apps could include the needed libs or at least point out which libs needed and where to find them.
So one can delete them if not needed.

So there could be two links for download then:
Download with Libs and
Download without Libs

or a download libs automatical here link?

At least until R1 is born or some distros will include all the programs and libs then.

What do you think is this possible way?

10

Hi Karl,

we seem to have very different views on Haiku’s goals and responsibilities.

By “just grabbing” I meant that the apps weren’t thoroughly tested and maybe updated where possible. Clearly, with the mass of software that would be near impossible. For what it provides, being a BeOS software archive, Haikuware does a great job, no doubt about it. And I appreciate the time and effort you’ve spent on it.
I don’t think I complain beyond measure, but will try not to rant on and on and on in the future.

Regards,
Humdinger

11

If your looking for New Native/ old BeOS Haiku tested applications with links to exact libraries if needed you might want to try http://haikufire.com

HaikuFire has a lot fewer applications then Haikuware but the quality is much better.

12

I would like to inform You , that “Synthetic Package Manager” has 100% tested & working apps on Haiku [ manually checked by myself ] Currently we have about +400 packages [or more] especially checked to run on Haiku. All packages installed are with all needed dependencies to keep your away from “dependency hell”

http://haikuware.com/directory/start-download/development/app-installation/synthetic-package-manager

13

Ok since most of the developers don’t read this and its just confusing everyone I think I can shed a bit of light on the situation even though I’m not a developer.

Haiku includes native libraries… the rest is 3rd party and you shouldn’t be asking for it to be included in the OS base facilitation of installation of such libraries is of course on the agenda have you not seen the rather frequent chatter about package managerment on the mailing list?

Also as far as BeOS compatibility goes those links are depreciated and new apps should not use them… which is why the alpha which is a development platfrom primarily doesn’t include them by default …

And as far as Haikuware goes it already has banners that claim haiku compatible or BeOS compatible a simple notice could also be added to packages that require the BeOS compatiblity package you can’t expect Haiku to cater to the past forever that is.

Also HAiku hasn’t really dropped BeOS compatibility like you make it sound…

14

Actually it looks like you pull the applications right from Haikuware, as the file sizes are the exact same.

15

Actually it looks like you pull the applications right from Haikuware, as the file sizes are the exact same.[/quote]

To be honest about 95% of them were pulled from the application developers site, which Haikufire as well as haikuware pulled directly… thus the same file size.

16

I don’t usually post applications from other developer’s websites, none come to mind. I did backup up listings to haikuware from a website I own and am therefore entitled to do.

17

StreakX has come up with a package manager which greatly helps to manage the 3rd party libraries that an application needs to run. It maintains a list of BeOS/Haiku applications and libraries. It is a solution to the Haiku problem of missing library hell. At least I think that’s what it does, there’s not much documentation :slight_smile:

18

Yes its fine to have this package manager, but sometimes i miss a good structure, for example i get apps under “Emulation” they have nothing to do with it.

For myself i like to install all apps file by file, i don’t have any problems to test a app in haiku and then to find and install the needed libraries. That we need is a libraries database so you can found them, this is the problem. If you install a big package of libraries and you overwrite some files in the system you can get problems to run it (the system) after this. And then you install all by yourself you learn many about the structure of Haiku (…there to copy libraries, there to copy header files, there to copy fonts…).

All old BeOS apps are gcc2 files and many people uses Haiku gcc4 or gcc4 hybrid today, so you don’t can get them running in Haiku. If any one want to make a Haiku distribution included all old libs and free apps, need to use a haiku gcc2 version.

19

Lelldorin said:
“Yes its fine to have this package manager, but sometimes i miss a good structure, for example i get apps under “Emulation” they have nothing to do with it.”

The structure is ok, you need to select a category once again [to reload proper category…]. I send You an email about it a week ago.

Lelldorin said:
“if you install a big package of libraries and you overwrite some files in the system you can get problems to run it (the system) after this. And then you install all by yourself you learn many about the structure of Haiku (…there to copy libraries, there to copy header files, there to copy fonts…).”

Its not the problem in SPM, because SPM will not give You an ability to install the same lib twice while installing apps that requires a similar lib to work. SPM check if this lib was installed previouslu , and SPM skips this lib while installing another app.

There is a nice feature quickuninstall where you can quick uninstall every lib / game / emulator / app from system by one mouseclick . Its something that installoptionalpackage dont have.

20

Streak,

You are one of the experts in this area. Will you write down some of this knowledge as documentation for SPM? For instance:
What main problem does SPM solve?
What minor problems does SPM solve?
What are the data inputs to SPM?
Are are the human inputs to SPM?
What are the advantages of using SPM?

These things might be very obvious to you but are not known to many Haiku newbies.