mmm end these:
or
not forget the origins!! 8)
Oh come on. Does Windows have a mascot? Or MacOS? No. Only Linux has a fat penguin and BSD a dumb looking demon advertising for Converse.
Look to the top of the page, a nice logo. Itâs all which is needed. No childish cartoonish hummingbirds going âkawaii ^-^â or big bad dragons. Keep it abstract like the current logo and you get the highest amount of people happy.
atomozero wrote:
mmm end these:http://xoomer.virgilio.it/_XOOM/mushaspot/beos-svg/64/system-tracker-mod.png or
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/_XOOM/mushaspot/beos-svg/64/system-tracker.pngnot forget the origins!! 8)
Wow! Very good.
thies wrote:
Oh come on. Does Windows have a mascot? Or MacOS? No. Only Linux has a fat penguin and BSD a dumb looking demon advertising for Converse. Look to the top of the page, a nice logo. It's all which is needed. No childish cartoonish hummingbirds going "kawaii ^-^" or big bad dragons. Keep it abstract like the current logo and you get the highest amount of people happy.
Wow, great first post and youâve managed an attempt at an insult towards the bulk of the people posting to this thread! Congrats!
To everyone else:
I indeed like the bee idea if it isnât already taken. Perhaps one on one of the leaves or something like that?
I will have uncontrollable urges to slit my throat if Haiku gets some dumb-ass âmascotâ.
Show me one successfull, commercial, professional OS (closed source, with a real marketing department) behind it that has a mascot.
Iâm not kidding when I say this: Haiku gets some frackinâ mascot, and Iâm gone. No more BeOS. If I wanted a freakinâ mascot, Iâd be a linux zealot.
BryanV wrote:
I will have uncontrollable urges to slit my throat if Haiku gets some dumb-ass "mascot".Show me one successfull, commercial, professional OS (closed source, with a real marketing department) behind it that has a mascot.
Iâm not kidding when I say this: Haiku gets some frackinâ mascot, and Iâm gone. No more BeOS. If I wanted a freakinâ mascot, Iâd be a linux zealot.
OpenBSD which has a mascot has many commercial products based on it. http://www.openbsd.org/products.html
I donât run Linux because of the penguin, I donât run it because in my experience itâs a substandard OS. I run OpenBSD not because of puffy, but because itâs a solid secure OS. And if youâre basing your decision to run an OS based on whether it has a mascot or not wellâŚ
You do realize that you could just ignore the mascot, right?
BryanV wrote:
I will have uncontrollable urges to slit my throat if Haiku gets some dumb-ass "mascot".Show me one successfull, commercial, professional OS (closed source, with a real marketing department) behind it that has a mascot.
Iâm not kidding when I say this: Haiku gets some frackinâ mascot, and Iâm gone. No more BeOS. If I wanted a freakinâ mascot, Iâd be a linux zealot.
Iâm forming a suicide pact with Bryan. Please, please: No mascot.
No Walt Disneyesque degradations. No infantile cartoonish inanities. Please letâs preserve our dignity, and simply enjoy the elegance and understated beauty of the superb graphics already developed and in use for the Haiku project. These artists (Stubear and Kurtis and associates) are professionals; their work reflects this. Letâs honor it and not debase it.
Would we paint a âclown smileâ on Leonardoâs Mona Lisa and call it an âimprovement for marketing appealâ?
Please, no. Letâs have some respect, and self-respect.
Czeslaw
P.S. A worthwhile essay on Disneyworld for the curious:
A leaf isnât a mascot IMHO (or at least a good one). I do like the idea of the tanuki⌠not a badger, not a racoon, but an âatypical species of dog that can grow up to 60 cm. in length, with distinctive stripes of black fur under its eyes.â With a magical leaf, the tanuki can shape-shift. Itâs a popular figure in Japanese lore, and theyâre rather cute. I wouldnât mind drawing up a few vector pieces. Iâll post them when Iâm done.
Also, I agree that if you donât like the mascot, you can ignore it (I personally think the Linux Penguin is a fat, lazy-lookinâ piece of crap but choose to ignore it). For a while, Mac had the dogcow that said âmoof!â Seriously. Google it if you donât believe me. I hope you guys donât boycott an OS because of a mascot. Thatâs just plain silly.
Well, not that Iâm really a community member these days, but Iâd be plain embarassed if we got a mascot - so you can count me in too Bryan!
A symbol (ie logo) is fine, such as the leaf device already in use, in fact Iâd say its essential for marketing. However, mascots are a gimmick for characterless and/or faceless systems - BeOS was neither, and nor will its children be.
This subject has come up so many times and its just plain dumb, how many times have I cried on my keyboard as someone says lets have a Bee mascot or whateverâŚ
gtada wrote:
Sounds cool, look forward to seeing them when you're done.
A leaf isn't a mascot IMHO (or at least a good one). I do like the idea of the tanuki... not a badger, not a racoon, but an "atypical species of dog that can grow up to 60 cm. in length, with distinctive stripes of black fur under its eyes." With a magical leaf, the tanuki can shape-shift. It's a popular figure in Japanese lore, and they're rather cute. I wouldn't mind drawing up a few vector pieces. I'll post them when I'm done.
gtada wrote:
Thank you and very true on both accounts.
Also, I agree that if you don't like the mascot, you can ignore it ... I hope you guys don't boycott an OS because of a mascot. That's just plain silly.
The reason why we have these discussion is so that people wonât end up with something they hate. I believe that there is enough people here that want a mascot to have one. Itâs now up to the community to decide on the one that reflects the OS and community the best. So, at the very least, if you didnât want one to begin with, you wonât be embarrassed.
gtada wrote:
Precisely. The Haiku leaf is not a mascot, mercifully. It's more a logo or a suggestive leit-motif. And a compellingly good one.
A leaf isn't a mascot IMHO (or at least a good one)...
gtada wrote:
The world would not "ignore" a mascot. A mascot would necessarily alter the public's perception of the platform. This claim seems specious to me.
Also, I agree that if you don't like the mascot, you can ignore it.
gtada wrote:
The "suicide talk" was hyperbole, and perhaps not the best rhetorical strategy on my part. I offer my apologies. And nobody is proposing a boycott -- at least, I don't think so. I doubt that Bryan would really abandon his phenomenal years-long work with Andrew on the Java port because of some ill-advised decision taken here to adopt a mascot. (At least, I would hope not....) The point was to express heartfelt opposition to this proposal in no uncertain terms, as a matter of principle.
I hope you guys don't boycott an OS because of a mascot. That's just plain silly.
More importantly, whoâs to say that this is even a decision that properly falls within the purview of the âcommunityâ at large, or rather the tiny subset of the community that happens to be aware of this one unfortunate forum thread? Has the Haiku admin team issued a public call for âmascot candidatesâ? Did I miss this? (Didnât anyone read Kurtisâs earlier post that the admin team has not decided to develop a mascot for the platform?)
The âcommunityâ is not creating Haiku; the Haiku development team and supporting teams are creating Haiku. Why are we â here and now â even discussing this ârebrandingâ of somebody elseâs labor of blood, sweat, and tears?
This seems profoundly disrespectful to me. It would be akin to my giving any one of you a new name, and insisting that everyone use that instead of your real name from now on. Against the objections of your parents â who gave you your real name in keeping with their right and privilege â I would say: âJust ignore this new name that I have given your child, if you donât like itâŚâ
Please, think about it.
Yes,
I agree with Czeslaw that the Haiku-team has to decide to use a mascot and if, which one. But nevertheless itâs okay IMHO to make suggestions here.
Think a little bit of marketing. When you want to make/keep alive Haiku (-> large enough user base), you must âsellâ the OS to the potential users. And I think, a mascot could be part of the âselling processâ.
Thomas
I would have to agree with those who feel that a mascot would cheapen the haiku project.
Moof was a icon for clarisworks and was never an official (or even an unofficial as far as anyone i know is concerned) mascot for the Mac OS or Apple computers.
Apple is a great company to study when it comes to the design of logos. the original apple logo was Isaac Newton setting under a tree with a banner across the top that read apple computer company. once they started to really consider it the logo was changed to the bitten apple logo. that logo has been rated as one of the best recognized logos in the world up there with the McDonalds golden arches. the current Haiku logo is very cool it has an eames type of feel to it very Mod⌠very clean. perfect as far as Iâm concerned.
A bird?
The Lidithâs Jay. A beautiful bird, rare.
http://member.nifty.ne.jp/group-ecology/rurik.gif
But, the kicker is, you have to be able to draw one. I imagine you would have to find a better picture.
Hope ya like it
Czeslaw, we seem to end up agreeing on lots of stuff!
Iâm also against a mascot completely. The suggestion to ignore it is just plain silly - having a masoct would change how the project is perceived by everyone. I can just see the Haiku homepage with a huge picture of a friendly cartoon bee, with his strange japanese racoon-like animal friends, beating the hell out of a flattened penguin. And then some little text underneath that says âProfessional users please just ignore the mascot and click here for our serious, elegant websiteâ.
I accept that if Haiku was trying to target exclusively linux users, people might miss Tux and want a big cuddly (insert animal here) to take to bed with them at night; but if we want to target a wider audience of windows and mac users, government organisations, professional companies, etc, I think a mascot would be more a hinderance than a help.
Whatâs needed is something small and iconographic. I think the best candidate is something similar to the circle of leaves used as the haiku-os.org site icon. Maybe with a bit less white space, with the leaves overlapping more (so the next stalk is outside the previous leafy bit if that makes sense). I can see this use all over the place - case badges, âDesigned for Haikuâ stickers, round the hole in the official R1 CD, showing which component is being loaded in the boot screen (imagine the Be circles, with the currently active one having that circular logo rotating around it). A really great thing to build a brand identity around.
To me, a mascot just screams âHOBBY OS! HOBBY OS!â.
Simon
ps: Nowt wrong with hyperbole 
There seems to be a lot of over-reaction in this thread. Having a mascot isnât going to make or break this project. It may change some peopleâs views of the project, but that isnât necessarily a bad thing. Tux never comes into play when businesses are considering Linux. Some home users might be drawn to a cute or âcoolâ mascot. If we have a mascot, some people will like it, and others will think it is dumb. Just because we have a mascot, doesnât mean there will be images on the official site with the mascot doing stupid things. Mascots arenât used by many OSâs other than Linux and *BSD, but they are used frequently in advertising of other things. There is nothing innately wrong with having a mascot, but on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with proceeding without a mascot. Personally, I would like having a mascot, if a good one were chosen. However, I have doubts that a good one would be chosen considering some of the awful suggestions in this thread and that the last vote for opinions yielded a mediocre name (perhaps, I am just bitter since I was one of the people who didnât include âhaikuâ when voting for names).
tb100 wrote:
Indeed. Iconic representations can take on lives of their own after they leave the artist's desk. Some, developed without sufficient cautionary foresight, can tend to lend themselves more readily than others to misuse of the sort that you imagine. It's important to keep in mind that the Haiku team chose to name the project "Haiku", not "Nursery-Rhyme".
I can just see the Haiku homepage with a huge picture of a friendly cartoon bee, with his strange japanese racoon-like animal friends, beating the hell out of a flattened penguin. And then some little text underneath that says "Professional users please just ignore the mascot and click here for our serious, elegant website".
tb100 wrote:
Yes, that makes good sense. In its current incarnation, the circle-of-leaves browser favicon is well-suited to its original intended use, namely, as a miniscule icon for display on computer monitors. It's perfect for that. But if one were to scale it up for other uses, say, advertising on a 40 meter billboard, then it might need some adjustment. Your suggestion to decrease white space and increase the visual density of the colored image areas strikes me as spot on.
What's needed is something small and iconographic. I think the best candidate is something similar to the circle of leaves used as the haiku-os.org site icon. Maybe with a bit less white space, with the leaves overlapping more (so the next stalk is outside the previous leafy bit if that makes sense).
tb100 wrote:
The simple fact that you're compelled to conceive of myriad new uses for this simple image is a testament to its strength as a graphic (and the fecundity of your imagination). (Kudos, again, to Stubear and Kurtis and friends.) I had imagined case badges myself, and even have plans to create them, but I hadn't come up with any of the other applications that you've enumerated. Your boot screen idea is a brilliant combination of the old and the new.
I can see this in use all over the place - case badges, "Designed for Haiku" stickers, round the hole in the official R1 CD, showing which component is being loaded in the boot screen (imagine the Be circles, with the currently active one having that circular logo rotating around it). A really great thing to build a brand identity around.
tb100 wrote:
How can you say that? Your position is positively indefensible! Hyperbole is beyond doubt the most heinous of thought-crimes against humanity!
PS: Nothing wrong with hyperbole. :D
(Please forgive this pathetic attempt at self-referential humorâŚ)
Czeslaw wrote:
The point was to express heartfelt opposition to this proposal in no uncertain terms, as a matter of principle.Czeslaw wrote:far more constructive, mature ways to do this.Czeslaw wrote:It's called open-source for a reason. It's that way so that anyone in any capacity can contribute if they want. If the community around something wants something and the project doesn't give it to them, they risk losing said community. That being said leaving because of something as petty as a mascot is rather... well... petty. Or is this a closed community that only calls itself open?The "community" is not creating Haiku; the Haiku development team and supporting teams are creating Haiku. Why are we -- here and now -- even discussing this "rebranding" of somebody else's labor of blood, sweat, and tears?Czeslaw wrote:This seems profoundly disrespectful to me. It would be akin to my giving any one of you a new name, and insisting that everyone use that instead of your real name from now on. Against the objections of your parents -- who gave you your real name in keeping with their right and privilege -- I would say: "Just ignore this new name that I have given your child, if you don't like it..."Please, think about it.
The two things that you are trying to create a link to have no link. Those that are working on the Haiku project have the last say and that is the difference. I canât force a new name on you just like I canât force a mascot on the Haiku project.And youâre going to have to explain that disrepectful thing.
And to the hobby/child OS remarks. Try saying that to Theo de Raadt of the OpenBSD project, which has a mascot. Sorry, but OBSD is no hobby/child OS and has a number of comercial products based on it. See a previous post for a link. Your arguments here have no weight.
Why donât we all come back to the realm of reality. Having a well thought out mascot would not take away from any project, it would enhance it. It is up to the community to decide what suits it best (to have one or not, and if so what will it be) and to have it approved by those in charge of the project.
And just because when one looks a mascot elsewhere they tend to have a cartoon quality to them doesnât mean that the Haiku one will be that way too. Try thinking out of the box.
Firstly, to clarify, a lot of what I was saying was hugely exagerated. Iâm sure Haiku wouldnât create a new-mascot-kills-tux cartoon for the homepage. I was just expressing my opinion that a mascot would âcheapenâ the project somewhat, and detract from the professional, elegant image that Haiku has started to build so well.
The reason I expressed my view as strongly as I did was because this thread seemed to be going down the line of âso weâre agreed we want a mascot. How about cute-animal-x?â, and I wanted to add my voice to those of opposition to the whole mascot thing.
SigmaNunki wrote:
And to the hobby/child OS remarks. Try saying that to Theo de Raadt of the OpenBSD project, which has a mascot. Sorry, but OBSD is no hobby/child OS and has a number of comercial products based on it. See a previous post for a link. Your arguments here have no weight.
There are a number of commercial projects based on it, but do they have mascots? I would guess not. My dream for Haiku is that it will become a viable, professional OS in itâs own right - it wonât need a commercial entity to swoop in use it as a base for a âcommercial projectâ. I think that is needed for an open source OS to be viable - a single entity responsible for the whole OS, ensuring consistency. However to achieve anything like that, it means Haiku needs to think about more things than most current open source projects. They/we need to consider future markets, image, etc.
SigmaNunki wrote:
Any examples of majorly sucessful commercial products to back this up with? So mcdonalds have little fluffy Ronalds to attract the kids, that's not the market we're looking at. OBSD is technically a good system, which the technical people representing the commercial enitities you speak of recognise regardless of (I could even say despite) the mascot. However, the OBSD project themselves isn't aiming for any real user market share.
Why don't we all come back to the realm of reality. Having a well thought out mascot would *not* take away from any project, it would enhance it.
SigmaNunki wrote:
It is up to the community to decide what suits it best (to have one or not, and if so what will it be) and to have it approved by those in charge of the project.
I would hope it would be up to those in charge to decide whether or not to have one. If they say yes, then we could maybe have a period of suggestion, then voting, as for the name. The problem is, most people who would vote would be ex-BeOS users so I would be suprised if anything other than a bee was picked. The danger is in 10 years time, a lot of the Haiku users wonât have heard of Be Inc, Haiku wonât look a lot like BeOS did (new visual design, multiuser, etc), and weâll be left with a mascot that for most people is one of the most annoying creatures on the planet (little pesky things that buzz around you when youâre trying to enjoy a nice summerâs day, then sting you and die). To me thatâs not a great image for the project.
I also think Haiku canât be operated in a âwhatever the community wants, the community getsâ style. Otherwise feature creep will take over and it will end up as bloated as linux.
SigmaNunki wrote:
And just because when one looks a mascot elsewhere they tend to have a cartoon quality to them doesn't mean that the Haiku one will be that way too. Try thinking *out* of the box.
An open source OS without a cheesy mascot? That is thinking out of the box IMHO.
To most users an OS is just âthereâ. They find it hard to seperate âcomputerâ and âoperating systemâ. Having a mascot character for an OS just seems very geeky to me. Imagine Sony trying to sell walkmans using a cuddly badger-type character (for some clever internal reason that only a handful of their customers understand).
Hopefully you will at least accept that my position is based upon thought and logical argument, and not just some mascot-phobia.
Simon
The âAnti-mascotâ guys are making some pretty good points, however OpenBSDâs Puffy mascot became a revenue generator for the project team when they started selling t-shirts and posters, and thatâs helping to pay some of the developers expenses and to buy new hardware.
There has to be a happy medium (not necessarily a mascot but possibly a distinctive logo (I do like the current logo a lot, but Iâm neither a graphic designer nor a marketing guy)) that can be used to not only promote Haiku, but also to help get a few dollars in the coffers.
Thatâs my C$0.02 worthâŚ
//mts