What does the TV program do?

Software
19

Among the wrong uses that I made of TV cards, this was clearly the most crazy.
My neighbour was crossing the hall with his Playstation and, we were plugging in it to the video entries of the TV card via an adapter, so we can play Madden. Not one vs one but, each a half time. Of course, we tried also other games but it was the most fun. We even won few seasons playing with Packers IIRC. :smiley:

20

The goal of Haiku is to replicate BeOS R5. BeOS had a TV app so Haiku also has one.

That’s the one and only reason. No one cares about it otherwise. But changing this goal is a can of worms no one wants to open either. So, it stays that way.

I have some USB DVB-T receivers here. Not sure if any of them are up to date for MPEG4 reception, and I don’t watch any TV at all anyways, so I have zero interest in fixing this app.

We should probably add a warning message at app start like there is in CodyCam. “You need a supported TV capture card to use this app”. That will remove the forum threads and discussions about it and most of the confusion.

Maybe we could also write something about that in the userguide.

Apparently, from the team who would prefer to remove it, no one has yet attempted to submit a patch to do so. I think it would be easy to move it to the haiku_extras package which is what we’ve already done for a few other things.

7 Likes
21

If the TV app must remain in Haiku to replicate BeOS R5, then perhaps at least IPTV support could be added so that it can remain useful for more people? Really, just anything to keep it remotely relevant in the present-day. Would the Haiku developers be open to this, if someone were to work on it?

1 Like
22

IMO, the goal of Haiku replicating BeOS is foremost with regard to the general workings and APIs of the system. We replicate the kits and servers and daemons, keep things pervasivly multithreaded, use extended attributes etc.
It doesn’t stretch all the way to bundled apps. At least not as a release blocker for non-essentials. Otherwise we couldn’t have removed the Keyboard and Mouse prefs, and introduce the Input prefs with the added touchpad settings. And someone would need to work on 3Dmix…

I think, we should remove the - at this time outdated, impractical and without drivers non-working - TV application from the nightly/release builds. By all means, keep the source in-tree in case anyone does take an interest in it or as test app for capture card drivers, if you must.

11 Likes
23

Yes, and/or move to demos section…

24

True. You don’t need to provide certain applications on the actual distro to replicate the BeOS R5 experience - especially if the hardware needed is no longer produced/supported/shipping/generally available. Basic users will expect or attempt to get the provided application to work.

You can attempt to find this old webcam (and similar) for CodyCam:

For the TV app, archiving this seems reasonable as a modern web browser is more useable to access TV content online or get a supported modern application for the desired analog TV capture hardware.
I never saw a mandate (i.e. law/rule) that said Haiku can’t make a native TV app for itself to replace the legacy BeOS TV app (and benefit from modern technology). Same comment applies to CodyCam.

Note: Keep the sources for the legacy applications. This benefits developers wanting to update to modern tech or use old tech. Also, 3DEyes did some recent work on certain apps dealing with IPTV/CodyCam or something similar.

3 Likes
25

BeOS had a CD player app which needed a cable connected to a sound card. That became obsolete, so we removed it. We should do the same for the TV app, and possibly a couple of others.

4 Likes
26

No need to be like the GNOME project and go on a removal of things spree because we’re too lazy to maintain/support it.

I also wish 3dMix could have been replicated. I actually reached out to the original developer but never got a response.

3 Likes
27

I don’t think the TV app should be removed. I agree with the folks who want to expand its capabilities. I think the concept is awesome.

1 Like
28

TV (TransVideo) app

Modern app should support new video streaming protocols.

Video streaming protocols are communication protocols that define the way video data is transmitted over the internet. They ensure the efficient and reliable delivery of video content from a server to a client device. Several protocols are commonly used for video streaming, each with its own characteristics and advantages. Here are some of the key video streaming protocols:

  1. HTTP Live Streaming (HLS):

    • Description: Developed by Apple, HLS is widely used for streaming video on iOS devices. It breaks the video into small chunks and delivers them via standard HTTP protocols. The client can adapt to varying network conditions by requesting different quality levels.
    • Advantages: Compatibility with a wide range of devices, adaptive streaming for varying network conditions.

  2. Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP (DASH):

    • Description: An adaptive bitrate streaming protocol that allows for the delivery of multimedia content over HTTP. DASH is an international standard (ISO/IEC 23009-1) and is not tied to a specific codec or streaming server.
    • Advantages: Codec-agnostic, supports adaptive streaming, works well with various devices.

  3. Smooth Streaming:

    • Description: Developed by Microsoft, Smooth Streaming uses a combination of fragmented MP4 files and a manifest file to deliver adaptive streaming over HTTP. It is designed to provide a smooth playback experience, adjusting the quality based on the viewer’s bandwidth.
    • Advantages: Adaptive streaming, smooth playback experience.

  4. Real-Time Messaging Protocol (RTMP):

    • Description: Developed by Adobe, RTMP is a protocol for real-time communication and streaming of multimedia content over the internet. While it has been widely used in the past, it is becoming less common due to its lack of native support in modern browsers and devices.
    • Advantages: Low latency, real-time streaming.

  5. WebRTC (Real-Time Communication):

    • Description: WebRTC is a free, open-source project that provides web browsers and mobile applications with real-time communication via simple application programming interfaces (APIs). While not specifically designed for video streaming, it can be used for live streaming and video conferencing.
    • Advantages: Low latency, real-time communication.

  6. MPEG-DASH (Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP):

    • Description: Similar to DASH, MPEG-DASH is a standard for streaming multimedia content over the internet. It is codec-agnostic and aims to provide interoperability among different devices and servers.
    • Advantages: Codec-agnostic, adaptive streaming, international standard.

  7. H.264, H.265 (HEVC):

    • Description: These are video compression standards rather than streaming protocols. However, they are widely used for encoding video content that is then streamed using various protocols. H.265 (HEVC) offers improved compression efficiency over H.264, allowing for higher quality at lower bitrates.
    • Advantages: High compression efficiency, widely supported.

  8. QUIC (Quick UDP Internet Connections):

    • Description: Developed by Google, QUIC is a transport layer protocol designed to improve web performance by reducing latency and improving security. It is not specific to video streaming but can be used for faster transmission of multimedia content.
    • Advantages: Reduced latency, improved security.
4 Likes
29

Those features are either not the job of the TV app, already supported by the Media Kit, something that should be implemented on another part of the OS like the Network Kit and then WebRTC, something web browser especific.

1 Like
30

In my opinion I’m perfecly fine with the TV app being dropped from the base install. IPTV could be implemented as a simple m3u parser that opens the result on MediaPlayer.

Actually scratch that, it seems that MediaPlayer doesn’t support DASH and if I use a wrapper like youtube-dl, it doesn’t like growing files…

31

The tv app is quietly there, sitting at the corner, not inconveniencing anyone. Just leave it alone there, don´t be a bully. :slight_smile:

5 Likes
32

I think it became - as usual - a breaking point among ppls
who would like to

→ drop anything for something new,
as for them always the new one is
the better one, the nicer one, the more usable one
the more usable one
They ignore those who would like to use or still use old HW
with capable SW choices.
They are right : it’s not a crowd of people … however, is it fair
to dump them ?

→ keep the old stuff
They would keep old SW/HW choices.
Some would just keep it - even collecting it .
Some fewer would extend the conservation to source code as well.
Some would add a new chance for them - enhancing it.
These would also not serve requirements of crowds.
Against it - I’m with this side
Not all of us has chance to keep old SW/HW working but those who can/could this … earn my respect. These solutions enabled for what they made for; and if they abandoned by the crowd they can serve nowadays still what they could do yesterday.
I agree with modernish people - in their perspective useless, obsolete.
But
tablets had not mage obsolete the books
podcasts had not finished with listening a radio broadcast
streaming - to sit down watching TV, or dancing to / listening a record player
etc.

So as more guys says :
Peace
:nerd_face:

If TV app or demo stuff
could left in Haiku even they are obsolete or not …
they earned to keep them.
If you still sense/feel confusion in the SCHWARZ (Spaceballs 1987)
you have magic to use
pkgman uninstall [package name]

Everyday modernization should not cause such breaking points
if we know ourself well and recognize when we may be wiser
and then we should be considering our base motives and offer rather constructive option or stay quiet if such does not come up – respecting other sides or probable usage.
This also happened above - such constructive offer : to keep it or move it into other package , or even enhance it.
I’m personally hoping in keeping … even I cannot use actually TV app or CodyCam or other else which still not supported in the deep (by drivers) or as it turned out - they created for another goal that would be used for - we would use it … in the present days.

33

Alright, does anybody here even have hardware that works with the TV app?

Edit: For clarification, I mean with the TV app for Haiku specifically.

34

Yes, it was the Brooktree Bt878 Grafics-card which had a S-VHS port for connecting the VHS player and a Videocam!

I used Exposer for doing Stop motion work, then!
It was working with BeOs Max!

The Bt878 chip is not supported by Haiku!

35

This was preferred years ago:

  • Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-4000 PCI :fire:
  • Hauppauge WinTV-NOVA-T model 928 PCI

Nowadays, there are “over the air” stations in which various antennas are used. Some users may check on NTSC/PAL/SECAM conditions for their areas.

Point here is that a user/dev had the TV app working to a point. Same with Codycam. So, the TV app seems functional but requires specific hardware.

36

Sorry, to be clear I meant hardware that works with Haiku’s TV app specifically.

37

There is actually one dev who uses it, Colin Gunter? IIRC, he had worked on the mediakit/ffmpeg a couple of years ago to make it work correctly(it was somewhat broken).

38

He has not been active for a while, and donated the machine equipped with the TV tuner to Puck, another dev who is still somewhat around but did not contribute much to Haiku (she’s woring on a Hobbit BeBox emulator and probably quite a few other projects I haven’t heard of).

Also, as already mentioned in this topic, this was back when DVB-T was using MPEG2, now it’s using MPEG4. So, to be of practical use, a new set of drivers for more modern hardware is needed. But that’s no different from various other apps in Haiku. You need MIDI devices for PatchBay, you need a webcam to use CodyCam (and our driver situation isn’t exactly great there either).

So, why is TV the one that’s confusing users so much? Of the 3, it has the most obvious name (yes, the TV app is used to… watch TV, who could have guessed). The problem is that it opens its full window in all cases, even if you don’t have the required hardware. Replace that with a “No TV tuner or capture card detected” alert and people will think “oh cool, there’s a builtin app for this!” instead of being confused.

3 Likes