Unable to invoke Team Monitor on a Mac

I am unable to invoke Team Monitor by pressing control alt delete on a 2012 MacBook Air running Haiku R1b4. Nothing happens.

If you just like to stop/kill a team, you can click into the black “cpu-box” near the menu button of the deskbar. Choose “Threads and CPU” and click on the wanted team. Now you can kill it.

Excellent advice. That solves my problem.

This sounds like a bug, either way.

Can you open Keymap preferences, and see what keys do (or do not) light up when pressing Ctrl, Alt, and Del?

Alt invokes Cmd, and Cmd invokes Alt. Ctl Cmd Del invokes Ctl Alt Del in Keymap, but does not invoke Team Monitor.

However Alt works as expected outside of Keymap. Alt T, Alt Y, Alt W, Alt S, Alt A, etc. all function normally.

I know this exact problem since I have Macs as well. Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn’t work because ‘delete’ on a Mac keyboard is equivalent to ‘backspace’ outside the Mac. I wonder if there’s a way to add a TeamMonitor path to Shortcuts?

There is a ‘forward delete’ on extended iMac keyboards that does equal ‘Del’ on PCs, and on MacBooks usually fn+delete = Del as well, although I don’t think Haiku sets this by default. Try with the ‘Apple Aluminum’ layout.

Otherwise, you can quit teams from ProcessController applet in the Deskbar (it’ll look like a black screen with meters in it), or use hey in Terminal to tell an app to quit.

(also another tip is in the Apple Aluminum layout (in Keymap Preferences), swap the Opt/Alt and Cmd keys, so command is where it’s supposed to be for Cmd+W, Cmd+S, and so on)

However sometimes if the the Deskbar also freeze … then you cannot use that as it wont work then as well.

And as Haiku is basically GUI based you cannot reach commandline as maybe Deskbar freezed as the GUI hangs so you cannot reach it via Terminal even if it were running as sometimes that happened to me.
I could not select from Deskbar or change to Terminal with running apps’ selector combo : [CTRL] + [TAB].
In that cases - sometimes - [CTRL] + [ALT] + [DEL] still worked … this way saved my ass to reboot or as last act : to interrupt Haiku by pressing power switch of my machine.

In that cases if it is not KDL, then you could use commandline
to find the appropriate process/team with command ***ps| egrep -i (app name here) ***
egrep -i means : filtering to given characters - ignoring letters capital or not

and after that – kill it with command kill -9 (its process number)

~> ps | egrep -i deskbar
egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E
/boot/system/Deskbar 824 7 0 0
/boot/system/data/deskbar/menu/Applications/WebPositive 1395 35 0 0
/bin/sh /bin/egrep --color=auto -i deskbar 16475 1 0 0
~>

Although an average user if they are using Haiku on their native language may not know that they must keep in mind that to search for rather the program’s original English application name as under the hood it is still running as that one program as it was developed/distributed. That was just translated for us on the surface :wink:
not on every level.

Sounds like a bug in both cases, that you need to remap this and that del doesn’t work. Teammonitor (well, input server) should just accept this shortcut when an apple keymap is set

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There is no “delete” key on this keyboard, there is a key labelled “delete” but it is in fact a “backspace” key.

So there’s nothing to do about it, the shortcut is just not reachable on this machine because it does not have enough keys on the keyboard, and additionally the keys are labelled in a confusing way.

Maybe it can work with the fn key if that’s implemented. Or maybe we can try to detect this and switch to command + control + backspace in this case, but how do we detect it? I don’t think USB HID reports send us the list of available keys :frowning: should we hardcode it based on the keyboard device/vendor ID then?

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Yes, I think if a user selects an apple keyboard layout this should then work with backspace too.

If Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is not already taken by something important, maybe use both?
It’s a bit wasteful, but that way you don’t even need to change the manual because Macbook users will read “push Ctrl-Alt(Cmd)-Delete”, and that’s what they will be pushing :wink:

That’s true. A Macbook or Mac keyboard doesn’t have a “delete” key.
On a Chromebook it is the same. But there I can press Alt+Backspace and it works like Delete. But this doesn’t work on a Mac. An dit will not help here.
Ctrl+Alt+Backspace is the only way on a Macbook.

Wouldn’t be better on a Mac, to use Command + Backspace? What keycode has Command key? Does it collide with traditional keyboard keys?

We should already use command as command for our shortcuts.

I think cmd backspace is delete previous word

I did a quick image search for “chromebook keyboard” and indeed that’s the case.

The moment we have an eMMC driver this will mean a flurry of cheap and light machines for Haiku to shine on.
Add that to the millions of Intel based Macs that will be orphaned once Apple starts releasing macOS versions only for Apple silicon. Well, that on top of the ones that already got deprecated all this years, but I think that the official EOL will have a heavier impact on the Intel Macs psicological value perception, similar to the transition from PowerPC to x86.

Yes!
That’s something that puzzled me when i tried to use my beloved Apple aluminium USB keyboards.
I don’t know why the Opt key is used instead. Maybe because it is labeled “alt” in most Mac keyboards?
But then if one tries to reassign command to the “cmd” key (invoking contextual menu of the key in the layout prefs) all the shortcuts in the menus are labeled “Opt” instead of “Cmd” and the actual function is still mapped to the same physical key.
:exploding_head:
So nonsensical and confusing!!!
What I end up doing is not reassigning anything, just shuffling the keys around and calling it a day. That way at least the menus are labeled with the familiar (for Haiku) “Alt” and I don’t have to fight against years of muscle memory using Macs and Haiku.

In case of taking this route, can it also be mapped to opt-cmd-esc?
That calls the corresponding functionality in macOS.
You know, muscle memory and all that :laughing:

Could be done probably.

Personally I don’t understand why we use shift-tab for the switcher either.

It’s alt-tab on windows and linux, and on mac it is command tab, the same position.

alt-tab is not used on Haiku, and shift tab makes my hand hurt. Perhaps this can be rectified by allowing both simultaniously.

(i guess twitcher should be moved out of deskbar first)

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As someone that has never used a Mac in his life… the whole BeOS/Haiku CMD, Option, Alt, Ctrl situation always felt terrible. I haven’t managed to make peace with the state of things, even after using BeOS as my main OS for 4 years, and using Haiku daily now.

AltGr not being its own key adds to the irritation.

I just wish I could make things match what I see on all my physical keyboards first, and second, make Alt/Ctrl the same as in Win/Lin (that would make using Haiku on a VM less of a chore).

But I’ve heard countless of times the arguments against switching shortcuts (I don’t agree with those, but), so I’m not holding my breath there.

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That option already exists in keymap preferences