So you wanted to avoid PaleMoon? OK. I can’t force you to love it. As I completely don’t care about politics, if their products worked for me, I will continue using it. Without a modern browser, I can’t use Haiku as a daily driver. I would just keep it in VirtualBox and try to port some Java stuffs to it. Hopefully the haikuports people could got openjdk stable enough.
BTW, what would you do with a modern browser for Haiku problem? Would you port Firefox or add plugins and extensions support to Web+? Please let me know. Thanks.
Sorry but that’s wrong. Look at the Haiku project, we are now 20 years into making a new operating system. Surely that’s a bit of crazy or insane, but certainly no one is allowed to be arrogant or asshole here.
Technical competence and ambitions anre not an excuse for unacceptable behavior.
I do not want to act as your shield against their bad behavior, thanks. I will continue to focus on projects where collaboration with other developers is possible.
I put a lot of energy, time, and emotional involvement in Haiku. I may as well do it with people I enjoy working with.
I will continue my work on making Web+ a better browser, because I think that’s the way to go, and yes, it’s still missing a few important features, but it’s nothing impossible to solve, and it’s less work than restarting from scratch with another engine, and more interesting to me.
Please do not compare apples to orange. Otter based on QtWebKit, so it uses plenty different abstraction layers and it sports a complete browser engine with HTML5, media CSS and JS support, while NetSurf have HTML4 rendering capability, no media support and a really basic (and AFAIK optional) JS engine and the GUI is also much closer to native. So comparing them doesn’t really make sense.
Good luck to you. But don’t be disappointed if they are rude with you. Beware of this guy: https://github.com/mattatobin He’s a good and competence developer, but his behaviour is not that good. I admit I sometimes admired and like to be asshole and rude like him, very straight forward and so… menly. I have used to political correctness too much, have to said what I don’t believe and don’t like, I have lied too much so being able to tell hard truths like that make me impressed and feel it’s cool. Perhaps I would create a github clone account and fscked all of the projects I hate, hehe. I used to did so with my fake Google account. I marked all of the videos of the youtubers I hate with porn flag and not forgot to add a dislike. He he. It’s very relaxing after a hard worked day
Keep in mind that we would be very lucky if the browser developers (Firefox and Chromium devs) accept our patches upstream, even luckier if they do the porting themselves.
Out of all of them, currently the Mozilla devs accept patches for Haiku support, but they won’t port it themselves. This is the same with the WebKit devs. They mention that in this ticket (0) It would be very generous and lucky for us if PaleMoon does both the work and upstream support for their browser.
However, for Chromium-related projects, they are mostly against accepting patches or supporting OSes that are not Windows, Mac and Linux. The BSDs have lots of patches (1) to maintain but would be easier if they were upstreamed, but the Chromium guys rejected them. This almost happened with me with another tool I ported to get V8 (needed for Chromium) building on Haiku (2). In the end, they accepted them due to not introducing specific OS functionality thanks to POSIX.
As for our previous V8 port (which before was broken) was rejected even at the time passed all the tests. (3), I’ll probably ask again once all the important V8 tests pass on Haiku. I hope PaleMoon is more welcoming to at least accepting patches.
They closed your issue because you opened it in the wrong place. As I have said, we should porting UXP platform to Haiku, that also make UXP based apps like PaleMoon automatically available for Haiku. UXP is here: https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP Could you try to make another request on UXP’s repo? It still not want to risk asking them. As I still have to rely on them for the SunOS build of PaleMoon. Still waiting for the official release of PaleMoon on SunOS. I used to build it once on OpenIndiana, they final result is awesome compared to the builtin Firefox but my computer is too weak so it took too long, 4 hrs, to complete the build. I will never try to build in on my OpenIndiana box again!
BTW, you are pretty much lucky as the people replied you are somewhat kind. But I personally prefer to talk with Tobin, he’s straight forward. No more kind words, if he said possible, then it’s possible, if he said nope, then it’s sure they will not accept it. Dealing with him is more easier than these guys. Tobin is somewhat like Linus Torvalds, before being political corrected!
Maybe instead of trolling back and forth on the net ( see: Port PaleMoon to Haiku? ) you should spend your time with learning C/C++ so you would be able to port stuff to make the world better place and with this knowledge you won depend so much on others work.
It’s not about trolling or not! Safety first! I will not risk talking to them. When you have to depend on others to done your job you can’t risk insulting them. I’m still waiting for my SunOS official build! Let’s see how they answering you. I hope they would accept adding Haiku support but I don’t expect them to do all of the job for us, it would be an cooperation between the two community to accomplish the job.
BTW, if I could do something, I already contribute and not shamelessly depend on others to done the job for me!
Other platforms may also be able to access the stream using recent versions of Chrome or Firefox (MSE, H.264, and AAC required)
I’m now reviewing Pale Moon 28.10.0. One issue might deal with security updates (which it does have a few) and working extensions (didn’t test all of them).
Just for the record, I withdrew my post because I felt it didn’t contribute anything constructive to this already quite unconstructive discussion (in my opinion).
But let’s try:
You like Palemoon and want to get some developers interested in porting it to Haiku. That`s perfectly alright. But if they are of a different opinion you have to accept that. It’s their valuable free time that they are using to contribute to Haiku.
My personal view on the topic is that I don’t see much value in porting a fork of an old firefox version. I think the resources needed are much better invested in improving Web+ or actually porting a current version of Firefox or Chromium (the problems and pitfalls that come with that have already been discussed in several threads in the past)
So, what I’m trying to say is: Don’t get frustrated if nobody wants to port Palemoon immediately. You can at least do some preliminary work by yourself, even if you’re not a developer (check if the dependencies are met, if the build process works on Haiku etc.) and then report back to the community with specific errors or problems. I’m sure you will get help with these.
But if the developers of Palemoon are really like you describe them I would think twice about investing any time working with their software. No amount of technical excellence excuses bad personal behaviour. (again, my opinion)
EDIT: Just did a quick look around the Palemoon website, their forums and github page. Seems like a completely normal community to me. I don’t necessarily share their view on BLM but respect their right to their own opinion. I hope you have good reasons if you’re calling somebody “arrogant asshole” in public
I have deleted an overtly political post arguing about current events.
Note how @PulkoMandy expressed a personal opinion that he “would prefer to avoid people with such attitudes”, without actually saying anything about their positions and his own views. If you want to actually argue about those, do it somewhere other than this forum (and other official project channels.)
This is all surely true. Web+ may indeed still lack some important features at present but it must be easier to deal with those than to port another browser from scratch.
Two more points. What happens if Palemoon shuts up shop (as they might easily)? All that porting work will be in vain.
And a browser written specifically for Haiku must be a good thing…
First, I wanted to say sorry to the PaleMoon people and specially Tobin because of my unkind words. It’s prejudice and I’m biased. I admit I didn’t have any first hand experience with the PaleMoon developers. All of my claims above just come from this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comments/bvf0z4/why_is_pale_moon_forum_so_incredibly_toxic/ I could be wrong to believe in Reddit too much and let my unreasonable fear covered my mind as much that I didn’t dare to talk with the PaleMoon people!
Second, to be clear, I’m not in favor of BLM or I’m against it. I’m not American so it’s not my problems. But I know what pollitical correct is, though. We are here also suffered from the same pollitical correctness as you, American. To keep ourselves from troubles, we are no way but comform to it. All of my unkind words for the PaleMoon people come from the Reddit thread above, not about they shut down their Patreon. I don’t have any objections about this decision, as long as I think if PaleMoon is still works fine, it’s not a problem for me.
Third, it seemed the PaleMoon developers are more friendly than what the Reddit thread above portrayed them. As their comments here I think they are open to accept your patches: https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP/issues/1599
Thank you for your interest on PaleMoon. It does have some extensions, but not as much as Firefox. Most essential extensions like block ads, translators and themes are available, though.
Yes, I’m partly agreed. Even if PaleMoon ported, it will not look as native to Haiku and well integrated as Web+. But while Web+ is not yet complete, having PaleMoon alongside of it is better than nothing.
