I didn’t thought that this would be such a big change of the system. If I have been informed right. These Days all apps/packages are in “ziped” format in Haiku but are presened as if they are unpacked.
Now that system are readonly and you only have home to but your drivers etc that you perhaps don’t want to chare or make a package of. We would probably need a common (you know the one we removed :)) when we go multi user.
I beleve that ease of having a common Place to put driver etc in that more than one user will use and you don’t want to make a package it are a valid Point to have a common folder that are not readonly for atleast not sysadmin.
Any way I’m trying to get my develper machine back on track Have some bugs that bugs me
How will the package manager handle dependencies? Will applications have these contained in the hpkg, or are they going to be separate? An example would be a CD burning application such as “BurnItNow!”, which requires the cdrtools to function. Currently cdrtools is bundled as part of the Haiku distibution. If I uninstall the CD burning app, will the package manager also uninstall the dependencies (cdrtools)? If cdrtools is uninstalled, will package manager leave me with a non-functional application installed on my system?
@ModeenF: there is system/non-packaged. This works exactly like common did. We even have the B_COMMON_* constants point there in finddir to help migration.
And no, it won’t decide to uninstall cdrtools itself. You still are expected to manage your apps, all the PM can do is warn you when stuff wil lbe broken because of what you do. You can “ignore” this and keep your broken BurnItNow. Then maybe install a new cdrecord package to fix it again.
“…the real problem is that the “limited software available for it” is largely crappy ports, abandoned apps where the devs lost interest, and poorly written stuff by amateurs.”
“What we need is well built, well packaged software, with dedicated developers who will maintain it and repackage it properly.”
This pretty much sums up the state of Haiku at the moment.
Some emphasis has to be given now to what applications are included/excluded from the next release. There are some well built applications that exist(even if they are 12 years old) that could be dusted off, polished up, re-packaged and included with the next release.
The average Joe six pack who tries out Haiku as an alternative to Windows, Mac, or Linux wants to try out applications. He wants his hardware to work out of the box. He isn’t going to care that the latest release has a new set of development tools included. Certainly, these ARE very important - but not to the end user.
Otherwise, we risk having reviewers writing articles that conclude with statements such as this:
“You get a bunch of other programs, like BePDF and WonderBrush, so it does have semblance of a real, functional system. However, the developers will have to do some really hard work to decide whether they want their creation to remain a sweet hobby or anything worth considering for more than five minutes.” Dedoimedo.com Haiku Alpha 4 - So what’s next? September 25, 2013
Keep us updated how your re-packaging of those well-built applications come along. When the HaikuDepot web-services are up and running eventually, those packages should be submitted there. With PM, I highly doubt we’ll see more than the absolutly essential apps coming with Haiku. The rest will have to be downloaded post-installation.
Actually, the compressed packages will free some space on the install CD again. We will of course fill it with as much packages as possible. The fact that they can be removed or upgraded later is nice, but that shouldn’t prevent us from filling the CD with useful stuff.
I understand package management is still in its infancy, and there is still a lot of work yet to be done before everything is in place. Until that happens, some of the best applications Haiku/BeOS has to offer should be included on the install CD as a showcase of the capabilities of the OS. Since stable releases are only coming out once every 12 - 14 months, it is the only time that Haiku gets press and is in the public eye. If the reviews are positive, people who read those reviews may be inclined to download Haiku and try it for themselves. What better opportunity is there to get the press, more users, hobbyist programmers and even developers involved in this project than that?
I consider the above only sensible when talking about physical CDs, like the one available from Haiku Inc.. When it comes to downloadable images, however, I’d much rather have impressively small file sizes and post-install only the packages I care about. Why add 100MiB for Qt, SDL and Java if I don’t need it? If I do find an app that depends on these packages, they’ll be downloaded automatically as needed anyway.
I also don’t appreciate having my Deskbar apps menu filled with programs I don’t use.
That’s what I really had in mind when I made the suggestion - the Haiku® R1/Alpha 5 Commemorative CD and not the downloadable nightly. Whatever is going to be distributed to the reviewers for testing.
When I talk about apps, I’m thinking about ArtPaint, Sequitur or UberTuber;)and not Qt or SDL.
Of course once the package manager is complete, there wouldn’t really be a need for including some of these extras, as by then most of these would be available in the repository.
I very much doubt that reviewers order the Commemorative CD for testing. Much quicker to just download an image (and then run in a performance killing VM…).
[quote]When I talk about apps, I’m thinking about ArtPaint, Sequitur or UberTuber;)and not Qt or SDL.
Of course once the package manager is complete, there wouldn’t really be a need for including some of these extras, as by then most of these would be available in the repository.[/quote]
HaikuDepot already works well enough to do that right now. Instead of putting those apps in the image, they can be just as easily put into the repository.
Have some bugs that bugs me 