@bbjimmy: maybe you didn’t notice, but here you are the one being harsh and telling the devs are stupid. You decided that all the devs are running Linux,and this is not true. Haiku is my one and only operating system, I put a lot of work, currently full-time and paid, but in the past also a lot of week-ends and nights building up the software I wanted and needed to use to get work done. This includes things such as the IUP widget toolkit so I can write portable apps from Haiku and not force users to run it, the libusb port so I can do embedded device stuff, several ports of gcc (for AVR and for 6809), and some other tools like GrafX2, a pixelart editing program. I could have used these on Linux where they are available out of the box, but instead, I have chosen to spend years (yes, really) to port all these things to Haiku in a clean way, so I can get work done with my favorite OS. Before being a developer, I was a user, and I learnt C++ until I know enough of it to get commit access. And now that I am a developer, I’m still an user and I still have to get work done, so of course breaking the os for fun is not something I do, and when someone does, I don’t hesitate to revert commits that prevent me to use the OS.
That being said, I don’t have a single problem caused by the package manager. Yes, things have moved a bit and I had some trouble during my first steps. I noticed setgcc was now gone and I had to play with the PATH or CC/CXX environment variables to change the compiler; I saw that /boot/common and /boot/apps were gone; I saw that I couldn’t keep the deskbar “applications” menu in a tracker window with big 48x48 icons as an easy way to launch apps. But I’m yet to find a single application that I can’t get to run. I even packaged most of the stuff I use to make system upgrades simpler.
What you think is sounding harsh and telling users they are stupid is not arrogance. It’s just that after spending years working this way to make the OS better, we very rarely hear people telling us “guys, what you do is very great”. We do, however, get people telling us “what you did is completely stupid”. I will accept being told I’m wrong, but you have to bring valid arguments and make some efforts to convince me: open bugreports about the apps that don’t work anymore after the PM merge, show us how this is annoying to you and prevents you to get work done, and we’ll work together to try setting up a solution. It’s as simple as that. When we hear a complaint from an user saying “I think you should do this and that, because I think it’s better than what you have”, without any valid arguments to support the claim, we can only remember you that we do this on our free time (for the most part), and the fact that you are an user doesn’t get you any veto right on how the system should work. Look at Microsoft or Apple: even if you pay for their OS, there are even fewer ways to have them hear your voice.
Now, there are some paid contracts running, powered by donations to Haiku, Inc. We can certainly understand that people who have donated money there may think it was misused. I think Haiku, Inc. also heard the complaints and they are not funding package management related contracts anymore. Read the start of the article that announced my contract: http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2013-08-29_haiku_needs_you. So, they are listening and trying to get things right. We’re all still a bit unused to working this way, and I’m sure things will go smoother in the future.
As for the communication channel, the ML is more convenient for me. I can check my mailbox and easily see all the unread messages, reply if I want to, keep them for later, or mark them as read if I don’t care. On a forum, I have to check each topic one after another, using a web interface which is considerably slower. It’s harder to keep track of which part of the replies to a topic I’ve already read, and I often miss valuable input. I find this very sub-optimal, so I avoid the forums as much as I can. And I don’t think I will react differently just because you sent your messages here or on the ML. I’ll handle it the same way. Always remember that things can escalate pretty fast with such written communication mediums: you read a message, something upsets you, and you write a reply while being angry. Out of the guys that read it, at least one will feel offended and will write an harsh reply as well. You read it, feel they didn’t take care to think through and read carefully, and things escalate pretty quickly. It’s always better to not answer too fast to the messages, let things cool down a bit and write your reply with a peaceful mindset. But on an high-traffic mailing list there’s always one or two guys not doing that… At some point it is better to ignore them.
Also, if you fear going against all the developers at once as a single user, no problem, contact one of the devs in private (all the mail addresses are public), group with some other users, and take time to set up your arguments and come with a solution. Good suggestions and constructive criticism will be taken into account.
