The problem is with point #3. When you plug your keyboard into your computer it has no idea what kind of keyboard you plugged in and only responds to the key codes that are hard coded into your keyboard with no introspection as to the various positions of keys across different keyboards.
This is plain wrong. Any keyboard that needs to be able to print extra characters has an Alt Gr key, including Apple, Sun, SGI etc.
European Apple keyboards do not have an AltGr key and produce additional characters in macOS with the option key that is in the position of the Windows key on a PC keyboard, so you are wrong about this, but I’m not trying to change your mind, I know that is impossible.
My European Apple Extended Keyboard II has a key marked “alt gr”. The Option key is also marked as Alt Gr. So stop making up lies.
On Apple Opt/Alt just fine doing that. On haiku also.
Seams that, Alt/Opt was intended for this originally.
It is marked only, for system there is simple Opt key (as I understand).
I found a picture of an Apple Extended II with an AltGr key on it online here: https://www.keebtalk.com/uploads/db8059/optimized/2X/9/9b1d938c81a06d9ac13d71b0f6cff4ca7011e55f_2_1380x690.jpg
Notice that the AltGr key is in the position of the Windows key on a PC keyboard. This kind of attitude is why I have no desire to fix any of the issues with keyboards on Haiku, it’s too much drama, it ruffles too many feathers.
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On my keyboard, the left Opt, which is also marked as “alt” do not print any characters. Right Opt, that is also marked as “alt gr” do print a lot of extra characters.
There are two simple methods to verify that this is actually the case:
1a. Open a text editor, hold down left Opt (alt) and press every character key on the keyboard. Zero character will be printed in the text editor.
1b. Do the same with the right Opt (alt gr). A lot of characters will be printed in the text editor.
2a. Open an on screen keyboard, or similar application and hold down left Opt (alt). No characters will be highlighted on the on screen keyboard since alt is not used to print characters.
2b. Do the same with right Opt (alt gr) and a lot of characters will be highlighted on the on screen keyboard.
Implementation can vary between systems. But alt is not meant to output characters, while alt gr is.
You are wrong, se above.
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Yes, but this is another problem. Which with help from the keyboard can be resolved by the system (if keyboard informs system about its model and system knows about that model).
This kind of discussion have always rolled long and long, and people will not agree.
Leaving preferences aside a little, in a more technical question :
Can we have a “role” definition for the keys in the OS ? (Option, CMD, ALT, AltGR )
Then a mapping between physical keys and this roles ? So that users can choose what fits best their keyboards and personal style ?
The legend in the menus is a little harder to solve , maybe leave that for the future to be made configurable ?
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Actually, I won’t argue too much, maybe there is a way to somehow distinguish those keys (LAlt and RAlt) in MacOS. But let me tell you, when I made my version of the keyboard layout for MacOS, I didn’t notice it: both worked as third-level keys.
Yes, but we have no AltGr role only Command, Option, Control, and Shift.
Option in Haiku works like AltGr, if the keymap has third level (I made and use such keymap for BeOS/Haiku).
…And yes, AltGr is a Windows term, in Linux/Unix this is called ISO level 3, in MacOS this is plain Opt/Alt key.
Calling me stupid and blind and that I don’t understand only reenforces my point that this is an area best left untouched.
I suggested above a version of such things.
True, but I said nobody at (my) work uses it. Including previous companies. Anyway, I don’t think Mac users >> PC users.
I fired up a mac and you are right, in macOS alt prints characters.
Then why is it printed on my Apple keyboard?
For Windows users to recognize it or indicate how that key works on Windows.
Or is it because Alt Gr is an actual function that precedes Windows?
Technically AltGr is Right Alt.
Wikipedia about AltGr history:
IBM states that AltGr is an abbreviation for alternate graphic.[2][3]
Sun Microsystems keyboard, which labels the key as Alt Graph.
A key labelled with some variation of “Alt Graphic” was on many computer keyboards before the Windows international layouts. On early home computers the alternate graphemes were primarily box-drawing characters.[4]
This likely was the intended purpose of the Alt key on PC keyboards, however software quickly used this as a combination key for shortcuts, requiring a new key for producing additional characters.
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