I stumbled upon some reference to a Wiki about NTFS-3G somewhere, and noticed that it’s also available for Haiku.
If I understand correctly - this thing makes it possible to have NTFS on other operating systems.
Windows runs on NTFS right? So I’ve putt 2 and 2 together and thought… maybe it means that it’s possible to: install Windows, ReactOS, a portable version of Windows, and some other s*** like that on Haiku.
Putting 2 and 2 together is the only thing I’m capable of doing here; so I’ll leave the rest of the conclusions for you guys.
ooomygaaawd! ok would you kindly mind to clear your post of some doubts? are you asking if haiku can read NTFS?
I can’t understand 99% your post… did you use some kind of translation tool?
Well, sense I took the time (a few times) to make sure that I formated the subject, and expressed myself well - I’m not gonna change my whole post! If you’re experiencing issues with a specific subject, please mention it, and I’ll answer you specifically.
So I’m afraid the miss-understanding is on your part.
I’m not saying that I can’t be proven to be a bit of a noob in this subject; but so far I think, it’s not the case.
So that you can’t blame me for, not understandable language - here are two quotes from the English Wikipedia; first about NTFS; and second about NTFS-3G:
1)"NTFS (New Technology File System)[1] is the standard file system of Windows NT, including its later versions Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, and Windows 7"
2)“NTFS-3G is an open source cross-platform implementation of the Microsoft Windows NTFS file system with read-write support. NTFS-3G often uses the FUSE file system interface, so it can run unmodified on many different operating systems. It is runnable on Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenSolaris, BeOS, QNX, WinCE, Nucleus, VxWorks, Haiku”…
You should be able to triple boot Haiku, reactos an some other form of windows. That being said Haiku will need its own partition using BeFS, as Haiku can read NTFS (writing is disabled I think, as it is buggy) but it can not use it’s implementation of attributes/meta-data, which stops you from booting from it.
To answer your question, the answer is no. You can gain access to your windows partition and read/write files to it (mounting the drive in Haiku), but you will not be able to install windows “in” haiku. Nor will your Windows be able to “see” your Haiku partition and mount it as another drive. Now, having said that, you can install a “virtual” windows using something like “Qemu” and other forms of virtualization software (Dosbox, etc.) I once had Windows 2000, Dos 6.1 and ReactOs on my Haiku box, they were a bit slow, but that is the price for emulation.
The best way to use it is to have a separate partition/drives for haiku and the other operating systems and multiboot. (I’ll leave that to the experts for explination.)
OK, I now read the whole page on Wikipedia about Virtual Machines; and here is what caught my attention:
"System virtual machines (sometimes called hardware virtual machines) allow the sharing of the underlying physical machine resources between different virtual machines, each running its own operating system. The software layer providing the virtualization is called a virtual machine monitor or hypervisor. A hypervisor can run on bare hardware (Type 1 or native VM) or on top of an operating system (Type 2 or hosted VM).
And with temporal isolation, can Haiku and Windows work at the same time?
I also read somewhere that I can choose to work with an installed OS with the VM.
I think it’s more important that Haiku will be able to interact with the files on NTFS than the other way around.
At least tell me if I can have the two systems work at the same time and each will interact with it’s own Hard-disk/partition?
I also changed the topic of the thread to suit the new questions.
well… there are a couple different ways to look at this.
There is currently no FAST emualtor on Haiku. QEMU is probably your best bet but it is slow without the acceleration features being supported by the operating system (its called KVM on Linux)
There is some interest in porting VirtualBox to haiku and also in adding improved NFS suppot which would allow having a shared folder between haiku and any VMs this would probably get you want you want but it hasn’t happened yet.
The other thing you mentioned is the likes of XEN … which allows you to completely virtualize your computer meaning you can have multiple operating systems booting simultaneously and sharing all the hardware by talking to XEN which runs underneath all the operating systems. I doubt Haiku could “host” XEN at the moment thought it would probably run as a “guest” OS.
Great news! thanks.
At least I see some progress. The last time I asked about the issues - I didn’t get far. I thought it’s pretty much impossible right now, and nothing close to that, in the near future. But now it seems pretty close.
I’m pretty sure there’s VB with Haiku as a guest; don’t know if for Windows though.
Does someone know about this? And can the “Seamless Mode” work with Windows and Haiku?
Which direction of virtualization do you want to run in? If you want to run multiple OS’s at the same time, Xen is one of the few ways to do it. I have not messed with Xen, best to look at the current version and see what you can do. (Site Link: http://www.xen.org/)
This looks like an interesting project so I might just do this myself, but with a spare hard drive setup.
Here are some quick links that I found on a search of “xen and windows” to get you started. (Good information.)
http://www.planetjoel.com/viewarticle/568/HOWTO%3A+Windows+XP+running+under+Xen+3.0+on+Ubuntu+Dapper+Drake
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/using-xen-to-run-existing-windows-installation-573581/
You need a decent system with VT capable CPU, but that is explained in some of the links.
If you need more, go ahead and email me.
Well, I believe that revive BeWine would be better (and probably even more easy):
http://www.bebits.com/app/2388
Unfortunally the website is gone, here’s an old backup:
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20040612015023/http://bewine.beunited.org/
The_Serial_Wombat - To simply put it:
I have two (full!) hard-disks that I use now with Windows\NTFS. I want to buy another HD (anyway), and to make it totally - Haiku compatible.
I want to leave Windows installed, and to install Haiku in the new HD in a separate partition; then to run Windows and Haiku at THE SAME TIME! Preferably with Haiku as the host I guess; but can be the other way around.
I couldn’t interact from Windows with Haiku’s HD. But with NTFS-3G (or some other way), I could interact with files on Window’s HDs.
So right now Xen is the best option? Can you mention all the options you know? And from worst to best would be helpful.
If you could try it out, like you said, and write some instructions; that will be great!
Especially because I’m (and a-lot of other people that will look at this option) a noob about computers, and it would be pretty crazy for me to form an instructional, from browsing different sites, meant for other operating systems; and try to understand how to do that from how other people did something different with other OSs, in posts from several years ago!!!
There should be a tutorial about Haiku in Haiku’s site.
How do I know if I have a processor with Virtualization technology?
forart.it - How do you think - reviving something that needs tons of work is easier then using something that already exist; or maybe just needs some tweaking?
The only thing that I see, that is really good about it, is that it will diminish the need to use (and pay for) Windows.
Two operating systems accessing the same disk based filesystem at the same time is a bad idea… that is why NFS etc… its prefered for that with VirtualBox yes you can mount the disk image directly but its just bad because you have two operating systems trying to access it at the same time and it just isn’t possible.
Virtualization hardware acceleration support is more common on server motherboards you not only have to have CPU support but also BIOS/EFI support for it.
If I can access NTFS with NTFS-3G with Haiku, when Windows is not installed; why can’t I do that when it’s installed?
And if I can’t excess the same disk; what about the seamless mode in VirtualBox? does it work with Windows and Haiku? And how exactly does it work anyway?
Thank you very much tonestone57 for the ordered and detailed reply. I’ll probably do exactly that, to try Haiku.
I don’t have Hardware virtualization. How much will that hurt performance?
What did you mean by “use your host partition inside of your guest”?
Did you mean the actual partition on which Windows resides, or NTFS, where I keep my files now?
Setlec - I meant that both the OSs will be actually installed on hard drives; work in the same time; and interact at least with their own partition. I don’t care which one will be the host and which, the guest.
Thank everyone for answering.
VirtualBox (VB) allows you to run Haiku (guest) on Windows/Linux (host).
#1 adding partitions or drives requires extra steps the first time around for VB (found in the manual).
#2 you can but should not use your host partition inside of your guest. The reason being is if you mix up the boot order in VB then you’ll have the same OS as guest & host running which will screw up (corrupt) the system files (ie, risky). Other than that, Haiku should mount & read NTFS partitions or drives. ie, mounting a non-host NTFS (or FAT32) drive/partition in Haiku would be ok.
#3 seamless mode works by installing drivers in the guest OS. These drivers are only available for the guest OSes of Windows, Linux, Solaris & OS/2. No guest drivers for Haiku. ie, no seamless mode
#4 Hardware virtualization is available in newer CPUs. “Intel named its technology VT-x; AMD calls theirs AMD-V.”
More info here:
Intel also has Extended Page Tables (EPT) which helps to improve performance further. EPT is found on Core i3 & better CPUs. AMD has something similar called Rapid Virtualization Indexing (RVI). Found in 3rd generation of Opteron processors, code named Barcelona.
If your CPU supports these technologies then you will find them listed in VB under System, Processor tab.
I suggest downloading & installing VirtualBox. Downloading & install Haiku vmware image & playing around with it yourself. Once you are familiar with it can you go onto adding other partitions for Haiku to access.
http://haiku-files.org/vmware/
MrAccident, correct me if i’m wrong:
You want to boot your computer on two operating systems simultaneously as host, right? IF i’m correct you can do that but the things is that until no one that i know of has done that while loading windows and haiku.
you can run 2 or more os thanks to virtual machine…
here is a article that teach how to boot windows and linux at the same time no VM in use…
http://www.beepthegeek.com/2009/06/how-to-run-different-operating-systems-simultaneously.html
In my personal opinion, i won’t suggest you to do that and i frankly think that is nonsense! Anyway it’s your wish…
Haiku will still run good. I haven’t done actual bench to see the real difference but I’ve used Haiku in VB on Athlon XP 2400 & Core i3. Out of 10 I’d roughly say, run natively (not using emulation) (10), VB w/hardware virtualization (8) and VB without hardware accel. (6)
6=good, 8=great, 10=excellent
Where Windows resides. If you mix up the boot order in VB by mistake then your Windows OS will run as host & guest which will corrupt it. Any non-host (any partition or drive without Windows on it) is safe to attach to a virtual machine. Safer to just never attach your Windows partition to a virtual machine.
Right now best that Windows or Linux be the host OS. Haiku does not have VirtualBox. Haiku has port of older version of QEMU (much slower emulator) which has an issue working now.