Nobody ain't readin' no more

Ahoy @Pap ,

For me it was irritating when he started to use GUI installation, he had fallen into the typical trap of reviewers …

… I do not care if they do not read the manuals,
… I do not care if they choose randomly apps and possibilities

it just piss me off they cannot use the organs they got from God

to look and

see and read

what they are trying out

and interpret / analyze

what you can see/read on the program window.

Of course new generations love the GUI, but they - seems - forgot to read.
It was a whole agony to look at as how browse in the Depot - he praised as graphical installation possibility -

but had not switched to [ All packages ] from [ Featured packages ] tab.

This way he - and his followers - saw some dozens of packages instead of thousands of available packages - including additional web browsers.

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New generations dislike reading anything that’s more than two lines of text, and even if it’s short, they prefer watching a video instead - preferably also short. That’s why YT “shorts” and Tik-Tok are so popular, Decent review articles (with text and pictures) fall into obscurity. So even older video creators have to adapt, otherwise they will lose views and subscribers. Or perhaps it’s the other way around, people got used to shorts because creators release such kind of stuff more easily and frequently.

Most probably both reasons above are valid, it’s an endless loop…

Fun fact: FreeBSD (which is the main topic of that channel) doesn’t have a graphical installer and doesn’t have a GUI for package management (well, there is a third-party one but it sucks and nobody uses it). It’s also funny that he didn’t try pkgman, which is similar to FreeBSD’s pkg, so he would feel kind at home, if he used it.

It is extremely common for YT creators to do an OS review without prior research concerning the operating system reviewed. It is common practice for popular creators with many subscribers. They call it “first impressions” or something like that - and it is inevitably superficial. It is even more superficial when the review is about something like Haiku, which is different than the operating systems they usually review.
The whole thing is similar to reviewing a novel without actually reading it, just briefly flip through the pages.

I dare say this specific review is better than the usual stuff. A typical video review is even more superficial.

The last OS review I watched that paid justice to the OS reviewed was about one year ago, before the creator of that video passed away…

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This is not about new generations. The average age of tiktok users is somewhere around 25 years old, and for youtube it’s more like 35.

And there were people who preferred watching TV instead of reading a book for about a century or so already. It’s just that now, they are all on the internet.

You also have to look how things are funded. TV, internet videos and newspapers are funded (at least in parts) by ads. Books and movies (which are more long-form content) are not. It turns out, people don’t really want to pay for written long form content on the internet. So they use the free, ad-funded things instead.

(Anyway, this probably doesn’t change your point, but it’s a bit more complex than “kids these days” as it may first look)


Twenty years ago Jeff Atwood wrote a blog post that makes the argument that users are trained not to think. He’s talking about dialog boxes in particular, but the underlying point holds.

That said, I’d have expected more from a BSD user.

@PulkoMandy has a point, people preferring watching instead of reading always existed. It’s just the fact Internet made it easier, and the trend to make everything as quick as possible is not just a trend now, it becomes dominating culture. (Almost) nobody wants to read text nowadays, it has to be video and, god forbidden, not a long one.
Even video is in a downfall, Creators with quality content still exist, but only as remarkable exceptions to the “quick, easy, and inevitably superficial” rule.

All this is way more pronounced in newer generations who were born in this, and consider it “normal”. I’m afraid the time youngsters would ask, out of curiosity, what the term “book” means is not that far away.
And it’s not just reading. The “quick and easy” trend is everywhere. For instance, why learning programming while there is AI? Who cares if most of the time AI gives wrong answers - or mediocre, non-optimized programs at the very best. It’s easier and that’s the only thing that matters.

Of course, it’s not the Internet (or technology in general) to blame. Those are just tools, and can be used for good or bad purposes. It’s not the new generations to blame either, but rather their parents who find it easier to just throw a mobile “phone” or a portable console to their very young kids instead of spending time with them. They stay quiet watching something (anything), and that’s all that matters.
If there is someone to blame, that’s humans in general, and their clear self-destructing tendency.

Oh well, I feel like a grumpy old man now. :laughing:
I won’t mention anything similar again. That’s a promise.


I am around the age of Windows 7, and I strongly prefer text to videos, read a lot of books, and am generally a counterpoint to what you describe.
Of course, there is a bit of selection bias here, but… all is not lost.


My short answer to this: carefully pick chats you participate in and you will find out that there’s plenty of people who read and learn.


Veterans : born 1928 - 1945
(platforms :
workplace )

Baby Boomer : born 1946 - 1964
(platforms :
workplace )

Generation X : born 1965 - 1979
(platforms :
F-R-I-E-N-D-S :smiley: as both parents worked, so they were being whole day and grown up together)

Generation Y : born 1980 - 1995
(platforms :
mainly OFFLINE digital era, maybe BBS, e-mail -
at the end : dial-in internet, newsgroups, WEB ! (opened for public at 1991) , startpages, web searching services}

Generation Z : born 1996 - 2010
(platforms :
ONLINE internet,
especially after mid : net in your pocket (PDAs, iPhone & Cie) aka “smart”,
dawn of several social networks and social media)

Gener. Alpha : born 2011 - Present
(platforms :
ONLINE digital era,
cloud computing services - like streaming,
scattered to some dozens of social networks and social media
and finally
AI )

Bolded – they were born into audiovisual era

audiovisual era means that when humans born into TV and later internet age.

It changed brain connections as well, as before many things to interpret for yourself and to others in Guttenberg galaxy stimulated only left hemisphere of brain and heavily needed strong imagination skills to renger and grock it to yourself…

Watching TV created and hardened connections between the two - left and right - hemisphere of the brain - this way the brain usage became more balanced and might more advanced.
However it caused reduced usage of imagination against reading, hearing tellers, broadcasting, watching theatre.

You get a full ready picture about a story, meanwhile as you hear or read a story your imagination renders the picture of that story uniquely - even you are in same room with others.

Some stuff required to ask about your parents or check it in a book how it is what it is , to be able to imagine. Think about griffs, basiliscus, pass, plateau, kingfisher, giant, dwarf, dragon, viaduct, dugong, sandalwood, cedar, macaque, seagull, malachit, amoeba, chromosome, DNA chain, etc.

(audiq)visual started with movies - but
it was not available whole day, anytime, but in a specific, paid time
it was not settled in your home or even in your pocket for the crowd

Also movies not straight audiovisual as think about silent movies.
So this way you can ignore it as start of audiovisual era.

TV was silent only if it was muted :smiley:

About series content - translated from hungarian – it contains some explanations why generations’ differences are valid.

But also
you are right :

it is
not about ages.

Episode 01 – All of the Generations - Generations and age
The Fridericus Podcast is launched in a new series, for which we asked for a generation researcher Krisztián Steigervald, as a conversation with him at the end of last year was very interesting among our viewers and students. Hundreds of comments and email came to continue the topic, as many people are affected by generation issues. Krisztián Steigervald was happy to take the invitation, so here’s the new series in which the generation researcher approaches the topic even more differentially.
In the six-part series, the excellent expert talks about the relationships between generations and age, step by step through the characteristics of each generation, changes in the generational attention in a separate episode, and there will also The topic is also how generation differences appear in everyday life. In the closing sixth episode of the series, Krisztián Steigervald answers your questions on the fly.
And while his presentation, our expert will recall a few people who have been a guest of the Fridericus Podcast in the past and who exemplify certain generation aspects.
In this first part of the new series, “All of the Generations, generations and age” illuminates the generation researcher.

Episode 02 – Veterans and Baby boomers
Two weeks ago, the Fridericus Podcast started a mini -series on generations, to which we asked for a generation researcher Krisztián Steigervald. In the first part, the expert talked about the strange and decisive relationships between generations and age, and now and next Thursday, he will take step-by-step characteristics to the characteristics of each generation: in this current episode, the features of veterans and Baby boomers.
Veterans are the first generation born before 1945, a generation of present-day grandparents and marshmallows. Their basic experience is uncertainty, as they were born into a world that is greatly defined by World War II and the frosty atmosphere of rebuilding, then in the fifties and socialism. At that time, there was a constant uncertainty, and things were decided outside of them. Their response to uncertainty was the search for constant security, which was most easily found in the micro family and in a retired position.
The basic experience of Baby Boomer, who was born between 1946 and 1964, was to rethink the world. And while they admitted that the veterans were good heads, but two world burns were in their lives, they thought somehow, something should be done differently. They are the ones who believe that life should not only be lived, but can even be enjoyed.
During the presentation of Krisztián Steigervald, some people who have been guests of the Fridericus Podcast in recent times and who exemplify certain generational characteristics are still recalled.

Episode 03 – Generation X, Y, Z, and Alpha
A few weeks ago, the Fridericus Podcast started a mini-series on generations, to which we asked for a generation researcher Krisztián Steigervald. In the first part, the expert talked about the strange and decisive connections of generations and age, recently the features of two generations, veterans and Baby boomers, and this episode of X, Y, Z, and Summarizes the characteristics of alpha generations.
The Xs were born between 1965 and 1980, they are the first generation whose members have grew up “without a parent” because the world of work has sucked in the parents. Therefore, the X generation became uncertain, but differently than the X-number, they had to make a change in uncertainty, but to adapt to the change, and the tool is maximalism. .
The Y, born between 1980 and 1995, was the last generation of members who were born into an offline world. Because they saw that there was an uncertain generation, the X, the Y, the Y no longer wanted to be uncertain. The 2008 financial crisis became their basic experience, seeing their parents who worked to death and were very loyal, lost their jobs as a result of the crisis, then the fall of foreign currency loans, lost homes, cars, and they came to them, They will not be loyal, so they started to deal with themselves.
The Z generation is a generation of those born between 1995 and 2010. The first generation that has grown up with the Internet. While the Zs have been included in a world that apparently develops to their needs, no one knows how and where they did not get a key to it. As a result, the Zs were uncertain about whether they could really learn useful things from parents, adults, or rather from their contemporaries.
The alpha generations, the post-2010 generation, has already been born into the smart devices system, everything around the alpha and everyone is digital. A grandmother can talk to an alpha by seeing her on the cell phone screen, not putting birth photos in the photo album, but in the cloud or Facebook group.
So Krisztián Steigervald’s presentation now summarizes the characteristics of these four generations, recalling some people who have been guests of the Fridericus Podcast in recent times and who are exemplifying certain generational features.

Episode 04 – The reorganization of parental roles
The Fridericus Podcast began a mini-series for a few weeks ago, to which a generation researcher Krisztián Steigervald was asked. In the first part, the expert talked about the strange and decisive connections of generations and age, then step by step through the features of two generations, veterans and Baby Boomers, and in the third part of the series, the X, Y, Z and Alfa generations were featured in the third part of the series together.
This one -hour performance will be about the reorganization of parental roles, and we will again recall the idea of ​​some well -known people who have been guests of the Fridericus Podcast in recent times and who illustrate this topic well.

Episode 05 – The challanges of generations and differences appear in everyday life
The Fridericus Podcast and Krisztián Steigervald, a generation researcher, started a mini-series in mid-March, each of which is about generations.
In the first part of the series, the expert talked about the strange and decisive connections of generations and age, then took step by step through the features of two generations, veterans and Baby boomers, then in the third part of the series the X, Y, Z and the alpha generations summed up. In the fourth episode of the series, it was a reorganization of parental roles.
In this fifth episode, Krisztián Steigervald will talk about how generation differences appear in everyday life and how generational attention has changed over time. In the meantime, we will again recall the idea of ​​some well-known people who have been guests of Fridericus Podcast in recent times and who illustrate this topic well.

Episode 06 – The challanges of generations and differences appear in everyday life
At the end of last year, for a longer conversation, Krisztián Steigervald hosted the Fridericus Podcast. Since then, no less than 1 million 97,000 people have been watched here on YouTube and Facebook, and another 336,000 listened to five audio interfaces.
Many of us encouraged us to continue the topic, and we launched the mini-series on generations on our channels. The series “Everything about Generations” started in mid -March - along with this one - was six part: in the first episode, our expert sought to illuminate the relationship between generations and age, and in the second and third episodes, it has followed the characteristics of each generation, illustrated with many examples, In one of the following episodes, he also talked about the rearrangement of parental roles, while in the fifth broadcast, he was on the agenda on how generation differences appear in everyday life and how generational attention has changed over time.
In this current, sixth closing episode of the series, Krisztián Steigervald will answer your questions on the fly, sometimes catchy.

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Don’t copy and paste whole webpages. Please edit your post to use link instead. If you must, it’s getting exceedingly off-topic…


These are not whole webpages - I gathered summarizing descriptions of that YT videos.

Me added as explanations it is not about “kids these days” - what me and Pap wrote about-, so not really about ages but generations who born into a world, and some then existing circumstances (for theirs as a reality) and socializing so , during their early ages, to take it as “normal”.

I also wanted to reflect to this is not about age of persons, but persons who are members of a generation. They are in their generations
from young adults to some month ages (at the end of their generations)

If it is off topic then opinions in general are off topic.

I thought in a topic

we can add similar content as a post
share our thoughts about a shared content.
or even reply to other’s replies.

If I am wrong about it - I ask for pardon.

If you say my post is too long, I can cut out the marketing-like stuff from the episode descriptions.
Or you or anyone can find it as boring and may skip it as we do normally.

Somehow I doubt that, this has already happened with floppy drives. But not books. And I think largely that is because there is no replacement medium that works in the same fashion.

Yes, please just link to those videos you think are relevant to this thread derail.
That at least saves us all a few mouse miles while wheeling over your wall of text.


Well in my country - Hungary - existed a system in literatury education
that the teacher at the and of a scholar year took a dictation or gave a list

that contained

→ mandatory readings
→ recommended readings

to read them during summer vacation.

One of my younger colleague told that he does not like read at all, so as in his scholar years they had VHS he watched those literature in their film adaptation.
I had not mentioned him, it could have problematic in some cases, as adaptations sometimes does not follow the story line.
Leave out , or even make some characters’s importancy different than in the writtren version to enhance the dramatic effect, condense it into a 1 and half - 2 hours duration.
Now this way exist the mini series - those let enough time to express the whole story and draw the figures better.

So for some people it had started , and started in the '90s…

I had not linked those videos as those are in Hungarian language.
I checked the availability of subtitles, but none.
Also YT actually does not offer automatic translations - at least not for all videos recently.
I dunno it is because as how the uploader sets up their video or general YT rule, but cannot select alternate subtitle at all.
This way their content would make no sense for the most members here.
I wrote I provided the descriptions - translated.

Regarding that part in particular, I have first hand experience in the form of newly hired colleagues at my paid job, who are trying to use chatgpt to get answers to their questions, instead of asking other colleagues or searching the web. (And by the way, they do read books as well in other contexts, possibly more than I do)

It’s not going well. You get right answers foreasy questions, and then you ask a thing that’s slighlty off the beaten path, and you get a very confident, but wrong answer.

We have demonstrated this to them, and I think they understand it. If they don’t, we will have to adjust our code review rules to make sure all claims and assumptions in the code are sourced from reliable sources.

I think large language models like these will find their place in the technological landscape. For this to happen, there ha to be a phase where people experiment with it, fail a project or two, and then understand the limitations. But, in a waye this is also true for books: they are a great way to convey precise and detailed information, but they take a lot of space to store in physical form, and searching and indexing isn’t great: you can’t simply ask a question to a library and have them find the right book and page to reply. And, nowadays, you can indeed get a lot done without needing books, because there are faster ways. That doesn’t mean books ar.e disappearing, they will be kept for the usages where they work best, and also they may evolve a bit (things like e-book).


and also they may evolve a bit (things like e-book)

That sounds like e-books are not books.

Well, in the above described videos there was a funny story.
The researcher had a chance to observe a little girl
when he got a book with some pictures as well,
and she tried to magnify the picture in it
using her fingers as it would be a touch screen.

( OFF Topic
I hoped so, when I first heared e-ink (and had not know the details of the solution), then it will be such e-book readers that would contain some hundred e-ink capable sheets, and in a quite book form.
The spin of “book” would store the batteries, and tables the circuits and storage.
We could be paging the pages. 1-2 hundreds of pages can contain some chapters and can be refreshed with nwxt chapters , as we finished the last page.
End of OFF Topic )

Yes, that’s my point, they provide everything that books can offer (in terms of access to information, at least, and leaving aside the arguments of liking the smell of a book and the like, and maype more importantly, the fact that ebook need high tech hard are for accessing them, which may be a hroblem for long term preservation), and a little more: easier to search and index, they take less physical space so you can have more of them, they’re easier to copy, and you can do some interesting things like sharing annotations.

There are also some unexplored parts to this, for example, it would open interesting possibilities for interactive fiction (going a bit further than the typical “choose your adventure” book).

So, they are books, but they can also be so much more.

Historically only a very small portion of the population was ever literate in history, high literacy is only a thing because the Prussian school model was useful for industrialization.

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