So, while many people have long disliked Systemd due to its bloatiness and deviation from the “unix philosophy”, now the new systemd v257 is getting a dangerous antifeature:
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unfortunately, videos STILL do not open using webpositive…
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I don’t need the new “features” to dislike systemd. It was broken by design right from the beginning - and now it’s just getting worse… again. No news here, it’s just the same intrusive crapware that was getting worse all the time, anyway.
On the other hand, I’m glad systemd exists, however silly that may sound. Since they pushed it (with silly “arguments” like “use it or else…”), I finally gave BSDs and Haiku a serious try.
I banned any distro infected by this “wanna-be a kernel” years ago and, frankly, the Linux kernel itself is only acceptable nowadays because there is no real alternative in the GNU/Linux world. Personally, whenever I have to use GNU/Linux, I prefer distros that use runit as an init system; it’s fast, easy-to-use, and just what it claims to be: an init system.
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My paid work is with Linux and I am very happy that systemd exists there, compared to the old way of messy shell scripts to initialize the system.
The boot process in Haiku (using launch_daemon) is very similar to what systemd does.
I don’t get the systemd hate…
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systemd do much much much more than service launching and monitoring. It even include JavaScript engine for handling policy logic. So it is bloatware.
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systemd,originally meant to be only an init system,has more commits in its Git repository than Haiku,the full system with kernel,init daemon,userspace,default apps,… (80950 vs. 67759)
How can that not be the definition of bloatware?
There is nothing wrong with more modern init systems that replace old messy shell scripts,and there’s also nothing wrong with Haikus launch_daemon.
In fact,there are many systemd replacements which are more modern than sysvinit,yet they’re only an init system and don’t try to replace the whole OS.
There is a good site with alternatives as well as further explanations about the issue with systemd: https://nosystemd.org
How long until systemd-kerneld arrives and Linux becomes obsolete? lol
Personally,I’ve given up on Linux years ago and haven’t looked back.
There’s so much more to explore in the world of free software beyond Linux.
With FreeBSD,like with Haiku,you get a full working system with kernel and userspace that fits perfectly together,instead of that awful mess that is Linux.
That’s what I now use on my servers and on a few devices that aren’t compatible enough with Haiku yet.
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The same for me, i really like the features of systemd.
And no, it was never “only” an init system, it was designed as a systemDeamon, hence the name 
If you really do not like it, don’t use it, but stop hating
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I had a long post here, but decided not to post it. Systemd is way too offtopic here, it works for the linux folks, and it’s not relevant.
Let’s just not do the systemd drama here : )
Also this video seems to be completely irrelevant here too, He’s complaibing that manually writing to some file in /sys doesn’t work? We don’t even have a /sys filesystem shrug
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I don’t have the in-depth knowledge about Linux and systemd to fact-check the linked video (and it would be out of scope of this forum anyway.) Unless you do have the required knowledge personally , I’d advise to get a more balanced view on the topic using different sources.
Yes we know that. There’s really no use in repeating it one more time. Unless someone with enough knowledge about media related development, and enough time and dedication fixes the bugs in Web+ and possibly in the underlying Media Kit it’s going to stay that way.
You can easily download the video using UberTuber or yt-dlp on the commandline, or try one of the other browsers available on Haiku (I’m not up to date about their video playback capabilities)
I wholeheartedly agree with that. 
Let’s stick to arguing about packagefs … oh no, just kidding
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My only objection is that systemd was never meant to be an init system. They initially claimed it was just that, but they quickly abandoned that blatant lie. It’s now officially called “a suite of basic building blocks for a Linux system” (their words). In practice, that just means is a second kernel (as if the first one is not bloated enough… we now “need” another).
Anyway it doesn’t affect FreeBSD and Haiku, so for me at least, it falls into the “who cares” category. @nephele is right, it is irrelevant here, and it isn’t worth our time as well.
By the way, when I started using Haiku seriously, it didn’t take me more than ten minutes to realize it is very BSD-ish, more than Linux-like. It certainly feels that way. I know the core system is different, and the “BSD-vibes” I get are superficial, having to do with the interface than anything else. Either way, I’m perfectly fine with that.
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I really like Haiku, for what it is, a single User Desktop System for enthusiasts.
I USE Linux since 1997, (in fact, i have used it 1995 in university without knowing it was Linux)
both private and for work.
I hate this Linux hate some here on the Haiku forums have. Don’t like it, don’t use it.
Of course we can comparre what haiku is doing better (or, god beware, worse) or different,
but please stop the (especially non fact based) linux and systemd hate, this is not the forum to discuss linuxes faillings.
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Use runit, use system v, use upstart, use BSD, whatever you like but please don’t discuss it here.
This is Haiku (not OS), not systemd haters forum
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You used the terms “hate” and “hater”, not me. So please do not call me (and others) what we aren’t. I can’t hate something that is just indifferent to me. And if you like said thing (or you don’t care what it is), by all means use it.
I reserve the freedom for myself to love and hate whatever I want,especially if there are valid reasons that have been iterated over and over at multiple places.
You’re free to disagree with my opinion,you’re also free to ignore what I say but please don’t tell me what I’m allowed to hate.
I hate Linux and systemd and I’d rather use Windows at this point.
Now how does that matter regarding my work at Haiku applications and Haiku itself and the help I often give related to Haiku?
I agree that it’s better not to discuss topics like this here,it always results in flamewars which isn’t productive,but I can’t let posts that judge what I’m (not) allowed to think stand uncommented.
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Ok, you don’t hate, you dislike
I just do not understand why so much Linux is bloated, Linux is non uniform, Linux is confusing
(may it be true or not) is here on the haiku forum.
The BSDs are more different than the various Linux distros, they have the same multiple Desktops, nothing about how Solaris or macos manage their services …
Also the video that started this thread is really bs
Now let’s talk haiku
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Well, the initial post from @Pap was an offtopic one, but inside an offtopic section of the forum, so I guess it became “on-topic” ? 
update: Sorry, I mean @damoklas initial post 
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I for one quite enjoy hating on Linux with my haiku homies!
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I don’t get the off-topic hate. It’s appropriately categorized as such. It may be of interest to people here, as many are interested in operating system topics.
I really so badly do not want to watch the video, nor am I a big Linux fan. But I did install a Debian based Linux using systemd on an old surface, and an curious. Can you break down the issues with the updated systemd? I don’t care about the bloated aspect, just the security and privacy aspect.
Edit: Someone might tell me to ask this in a Linux forum, and that’s where this discussion belongs. I would agree with you, but I don’t have a strong interest in Linux, and have people with the same good taste in operating systems here
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Unfortunately the video is not very consistent, it talks about ebpf, a virtual machine in the kernel, which can be used to to trace processes, like any kernel module that is running in ring 0.
He has a problem with the governor seemingly compiled into the kernel and not as a loadable module, along with some info on the CPU not exposed via sysfs. It is quite convoluted.
I have not checked out Ubuntu 25.04, I don’t know which changes are my by kernel upstream or by canonical.
His video sounds a bit like things have changed, there must be an evil plan behind these changes
I run Manjaro instead of Debian or Ubuntu. I wonder if I’m already compromised. 
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