Is 32Bit development to continue (long term)?

Yes, as I wrote, you can choose to use only half of your hardware and make your system slower. I don’t understand why you would want to do that, unless you have apps that only support 32 bit mode.

1 Like

Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood the message.

Actually, I think there will be. :slight_smile:

-The Raspberry Pi 3B is 32-bit only.

I’ve tried running 64-bit Linux on a Raspberry Pi 4B and it’s DEAD SLOW.

Running 32-bit Linux on Raspberry Pi 4B is much faster and I started thinking “how can that be?”

My current candidates for an answer would be:

1: The 32-bit Linux may use any 16-bit or 32-bit Thumb instructions; that means a 64-bit load can load between two and four instructions in one go.

2: The CPU’s cache is at least “twice as large” on 32-bit as it is on 64-bit.

(Note: There’s pure ARM32 and there’s Thumb when we’re speaking 32-bit, so the Cortex-A78 would be able to run 3 different architectures, whereas 64-bit-only would never be able to be as efficient as 32-bit if my above theory holds water).

Re RPi4B, 64bit desktop RaspiOS works fine, (& even on RPi Zero2W), obviously not as fast as ones with faster processors & more ram, but adequetely.

Yes, it works fine, I agree, but have you tried installing the 32-bit version of the same operating system ? -it’s much faster (much more responsive).

My point is, more bits doesn’t mean it becomes faster; it may mean that it becomes slower.

The Aarch64 instruction set is not a well-designed instruction set; it’s just a “standard” instruction set (and it contains what I’d directly call flaws; eg. no “carry” flag when bit-shifting - that’s very annoying). The ARM32 instruction set was designed by a genious and it’s fast. Thumb isn’t excellent, but it’s not as bad as Aarch64. (I think things have gone a bit backwards).

The situation on ARM is a bit different, but on x86, the 64 bit variant also has a lot more registers than the 32 bit one.

The Raspberry devices generally are also not the best for perfromance, especially the earlier generations. They are designed to be low cost. But we’ll see how a 64 bit Haiku fares on these machines when the time comes. It seems likely that we can do better than Linux there?

Stop the magical thinking that haiku can be that much faster. A browser like Falcon or Iceweasel doing massive JavaScript on haiku will need about the same CPU and RAM than on Linux.

If you only have one GB of RAM or less and a slow CPU haiku might be a bit better, but on a semi modern system with 8 or 16 GB RAM and a quad Core CPU, converting a video with ffmpeg or compressing a file with zstd will not take less time.

As for the raspberry pi, 4 and 5 are quite powerfull and 64 bit capable, I don’t think target the older ones makes sense for a Desktop System like Haiku, while running DNS and DHCP on a raspberry pi 1 on linux is perfectly fine

I’d say haiku is more situational with its performance because if I want to give you three separate scenarios of where haiku does good end with its performance, then you would see why this is semi possible at most, but as we established running Haiku on Old Hardware would debatably give you the best performance Or Haiku with Experimental GPU Driver + Mid-Range CPU + Compatible Hardware will allow you to get the best mid range performance allowing you to play more modern games with better frame rates, but having a slow slower UI Or Haiku on High-End CPU but Poor/No GPU Support using this just give you pure brute force software rendering, but it is still limited to software rendering such as examples would be using a thread ripper or any other good CPU

But overall, what I’m saying from all three of these scenarios is that it could be possible for it to run on there since a raspberry pi pretty sure it runs on SD cards cause I used to have a R 36S and that community and this one always used to intertwine a lot and I’m sure it runs on SD cards so you could boot a whole OS from the SD card and just have it connect to the CPU that way and make it run, but it’s features will probably still be limited mainly resulting into using peripherals, but this is only hypothetically speaking, but you are right. I would probably recommend using Linux than haiku for this specific scenario.

I forgot to add that you could just make the raspberry pi, The hardware demands kind of like building your own desktop that you can add a GPU, heat sink and a fan to cool down the CPU once the overhead starts to become too much then use some of the debug features and make the actual SD card haiku‘s be the file system but this is more of a hypothesis on my end. I feel like there should be proper hardware or built-in support.

Easily! :slight_smile:

-If 32-bit Haiku on Raspberry Pi runs a lot better then 64-bit Haiku, wouldn’t it make sense to run as 32-bit ?

-But for ARM-based devices, I’m not only thinking about Raspberry Pi; I have a Clearfog CX LX2, which I’d like to use as well. Most people only get the Honeycomb, but I wanted to 100Gbit network (that’s 170Gbit totally, not counting the GbE port). :wink:

Well, I have just as much RAM on my Ryzen 5 9600X, as my Raspberry Pi 4B, so that argument is invalid.

Many older systems running Haiku today are slower than the Raspberry Pi 4B.

I bet Haiku would run very well on a Performa 6200 and be fully usable.

Yes, Firefox is a modern operating system, just like Chrome, so … they will require a lot of CPU-power and GPU power. I don’t think they have anything to do with Haiku itself, as they’re thirdparty applications.

Yes many do, but I boot my Raspberry Pi 4B from a SSD via UAS. This gives me about 300MB/sec transfer rate.

SD-cards are slightly slower; for example one from ADATA is advertised to 160MB/sec - but does the built-in MicroSD card slot support those speeds?

  • Raspberry Pi 5 16GB RAM - $205 USD

You’ll want something shiny…

1 Like

And the prices are still going up because of the ram shortage, i should have bought the pi 500+ when it was affordable :wink:

A lot of pain comes with it (being unreliable, failing, heat issues, …), so maybe you’re just lucky. :wink:

That said, the Pi can of course be a fine thing for remote-controlling and monitoring stuff far away via the internet.

RAM prices will fall again, it’s just a matter of time. My 1GB Raspi 4B was too little for daily use, so I purchased an 8GB variant (with VM disabled) and that’s been enough for daily use. Even a 4GB variant would be good enough, but 2GB would only be enough for compiling on the command-line. >= 4GB is alright for web-browsing.