Haiku R1/beta4 RC0: Personal experience, reflections and grab bag

HI Xoblite, for many of these things it would have been nice to have a ticket or comment on the existing ticket :D, but i’ll try to break down some stuff for you.

Functions accessing volumes can hang the parent application for several seconds

I thought there was a tracker ticket, but i didn’t find one.

Multiple usb devices show up for less devices

There is a ticket! one by me : D #15857 ([Preferences/Input] Keyboard gaining severall entries) – Haiku

font scaling

There have been lots and lost and debates around this, but what it boils down to is that some controls scale with the font anyway (buttons for example) and some spacings don’t but instead scale with whatever the controllook wants. The font size is basically the “scaling factor” as such, we can add default scaling guesses, and the app_server actually does this now on first run iirc.

dynamic re-scaling

This is a bit tricky, but totally doable. We already do this with appearence colors, the FirstRun can do this for locales etc. The tricky part I think is designing a control that allows setting this without the containing window jumping around (since it should too respect this)
I don’t know what you mean with universal window message, my guess is you mean a way to tell running windows stuff with messages, in which case this is already implemented and at the core of haiku and how it works.

Resize corner

Would be nice, some windows are designed without it in mind and would be broken by forcing it. “normal” windows already get this, it depends on which flags you set. It would likely be a good idea to revisit some windows that don’t have this corner and redesign them so that they do.


The default now matches MacOS and iPadOS ; )
The setting is recognized by all aplications, it simply switches control and alt on the keyboard. The thing you are probably are confused by is that alt for copy and paste is specifically ment to not conflict with terminal ctrl c etc. … buuut if you just switch those then ctrl+c and ctrl+v will work in the terminal for copy and paste, and you have to use alt+c for terminate and such. So this setting will likely break your muscle memory one way or another if you are also used to terminals. (For my part I am happy to only have one “copy” shortcut needed and not severall, and accidentally triggering some inspector window in a browser if i use the wrong one)

Dark Mode

Heh, uhm. yes! I wanted to have this in beta4 but i had no time. Kick me ; )
As for wether dark mode gets preference to light mode or not, for me personally it would be nice. But this seems like an issue that should be discussed by the developers as a whole.

Hibernate / Sleep

Not implemented yet at all : /
But if you have a suficiently old system we do display a “It is now safe to turn off your computer”


Per default SSH forbids root logins and haiku only has the root user, so theoretifcally it should not allow any logins untill you either change the config or add a second user with password for ssh


You are booting in EFI mode ; )
But your gpu is likely not supported directly for modesetting

Supported HW

Yes! @lelldorin maintains one. I think this is the URI: Haiku - inofficial hardware compatibility list - BeSly Haiku only

Bundled apps

I don’t think adding applications that have huge fottprints or dependency footprints is reasonable, either you pull in the whole of gtk or qt for such apps. We don’t need to have a 100% working image because we still are a beta. and as soon as we are no longer a beta webpositive should work sufficiently well.


Wrong on both accounts, Icon-O-Matic isn’t bitmap based and neither do we use SVG icons.
We use a custom format called HVIF which is an optimized binary format. we do this so that HVIF icons fit into the disk inode and can be displayed by a disk seek without having to seek a second time. so the icons show up quickly. Icon-O-Matic has it’s own saving format but s ment to produce these HVIF icons in the end. This has worked fine for me in the past. what is broken about it?

As for the grab bag, i have not read all of it. but it would be nice for some of that to land in the tickets : P
(and i did not respond to every point either)
In any case, thanks for taking the time! I hope my replies have confused you more… uhh I mean less : D



Use this:

open .


This is how the program developer handle this, you can set flags to activate and deactivate window options(resizeable, zoomable…). So this is by the developer and the scruture and thinking behind it. Not every program need to be resizeable.

The “Alt” way is the BeOS way and a nostalgic part of Haiku. If we want a BeOS like system, this is part of it :wink:


Many times discussed but not at the end point. You can use my “quick and dirty” MenuSorter app, but you need to change every new installed application by hand in the menu.

We have a hardware database for Haiku. And we are very active in the Haiku forums to collect user reported hardware expierience to hold on actuallity of the database.

I think different, because a normal user (not an developer) does not need all this stuff on the system.

This is one point i does not like linux, because you get so many apps installed by default, the most one you never need as user. We have system based project who should installed and the user can install an alternative way by hand over HaikuDepot.

You can add enhancements on the Haiku BugTracker too

You can enable the “Application expander” in Deskbar preferences and “Expand new applications”. Then you directly see the list of windows for each app inside DeskBar. Somehow, some people are strongly opposed to making this the default.

It is a developper choice, often, ported applications don’t have it because their UI isn’t designed with it in mind. For native apps, if some are missing it and it can be easily added, we should fix them. But there will be no enforcement because some apps really need a full rectangle area to display things in.

Not supported yet.

The user is called “user” and you have to set a password or load/generate an SSH key if you want to connect through ssh. Since the service is enabled, you don’t need any other steps. By default there is no password or key so there is no way to connect even if the service is running.

We will probably turn it off when we get closer to a final non-beta release.

You are probably running the EFI framebuffer driver, EFI does not allow us to switch resolutions at runtime. If you had a native driver for your video card you would get more choices.

They are included in the beta releases (but not in nightlies). They are disabled in the live image to reduce RAM requirements, but installed by default if you install to another partition. Which is heavily recommended: running from the small live partition on an USB drive is going to be much slower than running from an install on an SSD or even regular hard disk.

No. No non-native apps shiped with the OS. If someone wants to make a Haiku distribution with extra software, that’s possible, but it will not come from the Haiku project.

If our goal was to do things exactly the same as other systems, we would not be writing our own, we would be using something else.

That being said, I tend to agree, the UI is not that great and an integrated mail client like Beam would make more sense to me (with modernization and better IMAP support). I may have some plans for that, but not a lot of time to start on yet another project :frowning:

Icon-O-Matic is working fine and it is vector based and used to design all icons used in Haiku. The UI is a bit quirky but it works. Certainly not obsolete.

The code supports up to 32 buttons but the UI doesn’t allow to see them all. So only the first 5 are easily remappable in the case you need to swap buttons for whatever reason (you’re left-handed, one of the buttons isn’t working, …)

It needs a complete rewrite. Probably borrowing code from MediaPlayer.

There are a few options in HaikuDepot. The built-in one is intentionally very simple.

They have different command line options so I would rather not do that. It will result in confusion similar to how “curl” in PowerShell does not actually start curl, but Microsoft own HTTP thing which isn’t compatible at all.

Someone ported htop but it isn’t upstreamed yet and I think also not packaged yet in HaikuPorts.

listusb and listdev use both the usb ids database and strings fetched from the devices.

We are in the process of migrating to a “new” device driver model, it has been work in progress for about a decade already. All drivers are slowly being converted to the new model which allows to show them in the Devices app properly. We should be able to add more data there (for example the equivalent of what listusb shows), it has just not been done yet.

In the current situation:

  • listdev and listusb gather their info pretty much directly from the hardware
  • Devices is a view of the device tree and loaded drivers as built by the OS, so one level higher than the command line tools.

I disliked that in 2001… still do today. :smiley: (still can’t get used to the Cmd vs Alt naming either :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:)

Also… I wish the Alt-Gr key was a separate entity (and not “right-side Option”).

Application expander doesn’t helps with xoblite’s issue (left-cliking on an app on deskbar) when using Deskbar as a top or bottom bar (no expando there).

And it even shows the “windows handling” menu (" / Hide all / Close all") when the app has only one window open.

One could reasonably expect it to just bring forward (or minimize) said window in that case.

(adding it to my “wish-I-knew-how-ToDo” list :stuck_out_tongue: )

The only computers that I have are Intel based Apple desktop (iMac) computers. I would love to have a way to not only test but Haiku as much as possible (as an application on top of MacOS --OR-- dual booting on my iMac.

I do realize that Intel based Macs are the past and that Apple SoCs are the future. I’m getting ready to retire. I just bought my iMac in May of 2020 and I don’t expect to replace it for 8 to 10 years (my previous computer, a Mac Mini I used for fourteen (14) years before I replaced it with my current higher end iMac.

Will I buy another PC to buy and use Haiku? No. But I’m willing to combine my money with other Intel based Mac users to fund someone to make it easy to install and use Haiku on my Mac with the intent to pay a moderate monthly fee to keep that up to date and working until I die. I’m 62 now and my mom is in her 90s and my mom’s mom lived to be 103. So that might mean a steady income for someone for 30 to 40 years? I hope that might be long enough to make it worthwhile for someone. (wink)

But I am serious about this. If you were to make a poll and post it with your next monthly update (or sooner) with a clear note that there is a poll for Mac users at the top of the update, I will see it because I am subscribed to the monthly update emails and I’ve been following Haiku since the very first guy that started Haiku was working on it all by himself. So quite a while.

I also have boxed copies of BeOS 4.5 and 5.0 and 5.01 that I bought and I tell people about Haiku and send them them this link for the original BeOS Demo video which comes complete with the BeOS theme song which makes me cry when I hear it.

Also, I’ve followed Jean-Louis Gassée - Wikipedia for as much of his career as I’ve been able to since the Be.

I’m serious about this. Will anyone in your group be willing to be paid to make it easy to download and install Haiku in a virtual machine on Intel (and Apple SoC) based Macs? Please? Pretty Please? With Sugar (money) on top?

Note: This has to come from someone that is respected by the Haiku team. I don’t want just anyone doing this. I need, WE need to be able to trust whoever does this.


The USA and EU are going to be awash with orphaned Intel Macs in a couple of years, making it potentially a huge market. I also have a couple. I don’t think that we need to pledge to keep legacy intel macs supported in perpetuity, but an easy install option will be very handy. I am already contributing a small amount each month to the project.


Blockquote “I don’t think that we need to pledge to keep legacy intel macs supported in perpetuity…”

What? When I’m 190 years old and my iMac is … well OLLLLLDDDDDD you won’t support it anymore? lol

If Haiku could support it for five years (with my financial support) and maybe even ten years (the expected amount of time I’ll be using this computer) then I would be thrilled.

By then I hopefully will be able to afford to buy a new Apple computer or at least “newer” Apple computer that I can run Haiku on.

@Sabon @squizzler Please stay on-topic or create a separate thread, thanks :wink:


apple hardware isn’t really superior in anyway,just build a PC for 1/8 the cost and enjoy

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Refer to the topic! What was your personal experience with R1/beta4 RC1

I’m waiting for A4 to release, been super busy ttyl

I’m turning into quite the regular user! My first HaikuPorts package is already submitted via pull request for review. I’m thinking of submitting a few fonts as additional packages, though I need to figure out where to put the documentation for the attribution credits.