IMHO Haiku should ship with as minimal application set as possible. The “everything and the kitchen sink” mentality adopted by most Linux distributions is a scourge and is frankly just a way of compensating for their crap methods of application installation and convoluted file system hierarchies.
The problems with the “everything and the kitchen sink” mentality I see are:
It indirectly discourages third party application development by creating an unnatural advantage for one application and therefore stifles innovation.
It makes using a new operating system even more overwhelming that it already is to a novice user.
The only addition to the current set should be a web browser, but a start page for that browser containing links to few popular applications, like BeShare, would be a good idea in my book.
I agree 100%. I detest that I have to download a DVD-size ISOs or 4-7 CD ISOs because of the extra junk, and they don’t label the downloads (i.e. “Discs 1 and 2 are required, 3+ are optional applications.”) Prime example: I never use OpenOffice. Period. In addition to being untouched (by myself), OpenOffice is huge. Why do I always have to download it, uncheck the box, then find out I only needed discs 1 and 6?
BeOS did come with NetPositive, a browser. So Haiku should have one too. Plus it would be hard to find new applications to install without a browser.
As for including other applications, I agree we should not go too crazy with pre-installing stuff, but at the same time we don’t need to be completely minimalist. I think Mac OS X has a decent set of included applications without getting too bloated. As tiring as it might be to have to uninstall a few applications you don’t like, it may be worse having to install the twenty you do. Though I guess that is just a necessary evil when doing reinstalls or setting up new machines. But we can ease the burden in Haiku by including top-quality applications.
perhaps 90% of what everyone does on the computer these days is on the web so I’m glad we have firefox to cover that. And irc is especially important for users of a new OS. Chances are there will be a question and it’s important to go to #haiku for instant help.
All those apps on linux don’t help the platform at all. They complain about a Microsoft monopoly that bundles apps and yet they do the same thing. I would like to see a new vision, where you can put together a word processor from one organization and a spreadsheet from another and they would be integrated like a suite. Create a spreadsheet with “X”, embed it in word processor “Y” and edit it with spreadsheet “Z” (you shouldn’t be forced to use “X” even though that is the original spreadsheet app because “Z” also understands the same datatype)
No, of course, Gobe was against my vision completely and the result was a nifty word processor with a subpar spreadsheet and all your docs are locked up. They had to try to do everything in order to have integration and a small company won’t be able to pull that off. Why not just make the best word processor and let someone else focus on the spreadsheet?
it’s true that many softwares that come in the linux Distribution may be considerate as junk but it other many alternative software for almost every software and it’s open source. the MS bundling action it’s much more aggressive than linux distribs do. And another thing is MS thinks that they are the standard software that they aren’t respecting the ISO standard policy or w3 standard policy. If you choose Firefox as the main web browser for Haiku then you are doing as MS does with IE7, if you bundle firefox, opera and what else software you are creating this junk situation that linux distribs do… IMHO i prefer to have the same situation as the linux distribs have, so you offer to the user alternatives to use any software. But it’s my opinion TBH.
Now about the discussion of bundeled applications.
Well, don’t forget, we’re talking about an alpha-release !
So it is not that kind of ‘release’ or ‘distribution’ as we know that from other OSes.
I’d prefer a browser, of course and that BeShare application. It’s not that important as in the old BeOS days but the muscle-networks provides us some kind of unique possibility to chat and share applications. Very sad the activity on the remaining servers is quite small (i remember the old days…).
As HAIKU needs applications when it’s done (beta or RC status) i think it should be released as an alpha with developer tools.
There is not so_much software out there.
a little bit OT now
And for the old softwares of the BeOS-days we should bundle our power and do something to making the former BeOS Software developers/Companies interested in looking into their old Archives. Maybe a few of them take a look about recompiling their apps. (i hope for that). There was very good softwares out for the BeOS, i.e. e-Picture, Mail-It, goBe, Corum III, Siegfried BackUp, Becasso, Digital Tracker, InSite Designer, personalStudio an so on. Anyone here remembers BeatWare INC., Sum Software, Raycone Software and few others which provided us HighQuality-software for ‘our’ OS? Not to mention goBe productive which is still my number one software for BeOS/HAIKU. And SoundPlay, and…
Togehter we are strong, but isn’t it a bit early to do it now (alpha stage)? I don’t know. end OT
So as mentioned above, Dev-Tools and a Browser should be enough for upcoming alpha.
For other needs i think senryu is the best.
Or should there be a decision? An alpha-cd with the option to install plain HAIKU w/dev-tools or senryu w/bundeled applications?
I think all standard development tools like GCC should be included and setup right. GCC4 should be there as the default compiler and there should be no problem using GCC4 to compile programs. I would also like to have either a browser or a package manager included.
there is a default set of programs that ships with Haiku, but what might be interesting would be a download page where you can download your personal Haiku-CD with whatever software you want on your CD.
I am thinking of a generic installer that can install a list of programs that just exist in a special format on the installation medium. The user would decide what files go on the disk, before he downloads it.
Go to the Haiku download page. It has a list containing the base Package with the programs the Haiku developers think every Haiku has to ship with and lots of programs one might want to have on the CD.
Step: The user can check different radio buttons or whatever design is chosen to choose what packages he wants to fill up his installation medium. (There could be some box with favorite choices, for people who want more than basic but don’t want to choose.)
Step: The user downloads his personal Installation CD
Step: The user installes Haiku from the CD. I would love to see an installer like the one YellowTAB put into Zeta. The special thing was, that it shows screenshots of the programs one could install. The programs in the list would be the ones the user picked in step 2.
Step: everything done and you have a great Haiku experience, no more searching the web and manually downloading and installing the 4 programs you always use.
Nah, don’t like it.
Don’t get me wrong, the idea itself is fine, it’s just not something I want to have included in the Haiku base system.
It’s no help to be provided with a long list of apps, even if there were screenshots. You still have to install and use them for a bit to pick and choose the few cherries among them. With your proposal the line between OS and 3rd party software is blurred and a new user may mistake, let’s say, “unpolished” apps with the system.
It would make a nice service for a website that tests software, though not as your proposed complete distribution. They could create BestOf packages that can be downloaded and unzipped with a single click. Well, three clicks: one on the link, one on “OK” to open in Expander and one on “OK” to unpack…
Everyone registered can save and change these packages in his profile for a quick download of his farvorite apps in case of a new Haiku installation. Updates to his apps could be announced via email.
I bet you’d find such a webservice, if it’s done well, prominently linked on Haiku’s website and in its documentation.
Hey, see what I did there? I took your idea, said I don’t like it, and morphed it into something awesome.
Like R5: Links on the desktop to docs, bebits.com, user groups, irc.
Webbrowser (again get connected)
A lot of little neat demoes: get people interested what the system can do without being complicated, get developers attention.
For me I was sold when I saw Gobe Productive’s ‘the Widget’ sample document.