GoBe Productive on Haiku


#1

From the OSnews website: The State of Applications On Haiku

AndrewZ said:

“GOBEProductive - Do I have a quote? No. Have I spoken with GOBE Software and a Sr. Haiku developer? Yes. GP is not open sourced but there is a possibility of a Haiku port. I’m hoping this will inspire some positive discussion and a new efforts here.”

koki said:

"In May 2008, when I was still heavily involved with the Haiku project, I had discussions with Bruce Hammond of Gobe Software that lead to a concrete offer from him to give Haiku developers the opportunity to work on a Haiku port of Gobe Productive 3; in exchange for the development work, Bruce committed to make the resulting Haiku binaries available for free.

In response to Bruce’s generous offer, several Haiku developers of stature volunteered to work on the port, and they were given access to the code, but for some reason the project never went anywhere. It is kind of disappointing that nothing has materialized after more than two years, but maybe there is still hope.

Yes, I know who the developers were (four, if my memory does not fail), but it’s up to them whether they want to come forward or not. You could always ask on one of the Haiku mailing lists.

BTW, there was no money involved whatsoever; the agreement was that the devs would do the work for free and Gobe would release the GP3 binary for Haiku gratis.

I have no idea on the state of the code; that would be another question for the devs, which they may not be able to answer as they were unders NDAs."

What ever became of these discussions?


#2

[quote=meburkeRoboticist]I have built an Excel app in Excel 2010 to help me record the requirements for my own clients. I would have to clean it up to make it acceptable for others, but I guess I can do that if it would help.
[/quote]
There is already a Spreadsheat software - called SumIt … not shure how the code quality of this project - but at least its extensable with plugins :). Maybe its possible to improove sum it :).

There are some online tools like https://drive.draw.io wich allows to coloberate on a uml diagramm.

We stared already to collect some ideas … just in a collaberative document (not yet uml)

I started in (2005) a Project with the goal of a n uml like Editor. The idea was back in the day also to have at some point something like a class export function.
But i didnt came far because the lack of time.
Also everything wich was good “planned” before was really “easy” to implement. Things i didnt planned well made it messy :slight_smile:

[quote=meburkeRoboticist]
UML suits me because I LIKE to know what I’m building. So what I’ve proposed here is simply an approach. My experience is that a group of people enthusiastically collaborating on a good project will be find more creative and better solutions than I would working on my own.[/quote]

From my expericene with projectconceptor its really really hard to implement a functional Software this complexe in a apropiate time if you do it beside a “normal” job.


#3

OK, this is obviously not a trivial project. The good news is that office suites have been created before. Anyone interested can create a feature list from existing suites. I strongly suggest using a requirements process such as that suggested in, “Mastering the Requirements Process” by Suzanne and James Robinson. I’ve used this process for a number of years, and I have built an Excel app in Excel 2010 to help me record the requirements for my own clients. I would have to clean it up to make it acceptable for others, but I guess I can do that if it would help.

Another approach would be to record the requirements in UML using something like Dia (in Eclipse) or Rational Rose. This is a little more complicated and requires the collaboration of someone with more expensive tools, but it does make the requirements more solid.

Once the requirements are configured to a UML design, it may be possible to generate a working draft from the UML diagrams, and that saves LOTS of time.

There are arguments for different development strategies, but this online, collaborative project is obviously unsuitable for agile development, so I’m suggesting an architectural, building and engineering approach.

What are the possibilities that the functionality of Open/LibreOffice could be reverse-engineered to UML diagrams using something like Rational or Embarcadero? Are there any online tools that would allow this type of collaboration? Once the design is abstracted and the hardware/OS prejudices are streamlined, the coding is almost trivial. Therefore, if the code is generated from the design it would need some tweaking and optimization, but the result could be optimized for HAIKU.

On a personal note: I’ve been programming since 1965. I started doing assembly language cryptology (AUTOCODER) on IBM 1401 and 1440 systems. All programming was designed (using flowcharts) and once the design was desk checked, the program was punched onto Hollerith cards for testing and distribution. I’m a big fan of solid design before coding. I used decision tables to clarify my thinking for larger projects on many different machines. When “Structured Systems” became the programming paradigm, I found Warnier-Orr diagrams, and they helped me design some cool programs that even ran the first time I compiled them. (Languages: FORTRAN, Pascal, BASIC.) The use of this process drove management crazy; We spent much more time on the design process and it looked like nothing was happening, but many times we completed the projects well before the estimated completion date. UML suits me because I LIKE to know what I’m building. So what I’ve proposed here is simply an approach. My experience is that a group of people enthusiastically collaborating on a good project will be find more creative and better solutions than I would working on my own.


#4

I’m not sure that it’s anything but vaporware, at one point Gobe was going to be GPLd back in 2002, that never materialized. IIRC they also were in negotiations to install the Windows version of Gobe in India’s government… not sure what materialized on that either.

http://www.osnews.com/story/1520

It would be nice to get our hands on GP3, It’s got the soul of Clarisworks (no one remembers it anymore), however I think at this time the source has disappeared forever.


#5

This would be great and I hope that the agreement can be revived.

A couple of questions, which likely only the (four) developers could answer:

What were the implications for further developing Productive for Haiku - say a R3.5, R4, etc?

Did GoBe reserved their rights to back-port into their Windows version any improvements to the base code made by the Haiku team? If so, and without being too greedy, could Haiku secure a small “royality” (steady stream of funds for Haiku development) for such back-ported code?


#6

Did anyone they thought about such a “model” like blender?
Ask them how much money they want so that we can “buy” the code, set it under MIT and make it a part of Haiku.
If we have a number we can try to find ways to rais the money (bounty, kickstarter and so on) From my point of view this would be the only way to go… it gives GoBe money and us a Office Suite wich we hardly need on haiku and wich we can continue to develop.

@vidrep can you find out how much it would cost to buy the source??


#7

I only learned about his a couple of days ago while researching GoBe Software and came across some old threads where this offer had been discussed. Apparently GoBe source code has changed hands a couple of times since then and is now owned by an Indian movie producer, ErosNow.
Read the threads below for details.

http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/gobe_productive_haiku_0


https://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/gobe_productive_haiku#comment-23291

I was just wondering what ever transpired, and why the offer never went through. I’m sure licensing, non disclosure agreements and other factors played a part in the deal falling through. However, that is only speculation on my part.
If the price was right, I’m sure the Haiku community, including myself, would be willing to ante up, and raise the money to buy the source code.
Are any of the developers who were involved willing to tell the story?


#8

Time, effort, and money would be better spent on Java and getting something like LibreOffice working.


#9

Java already has a port of one type. Feel free to port LibreOffice. Outside of that, I myself would prefer a native app over java any day of the week. More efficient, runs better, faster, plenty of ups to that side of things. Gobe was very good back in the day. Aside from that coming back up, it would definitely need some updates hence.


#10

[quote=Paradoxon]Did anyone they thought about such a “model” like blender?
Ask them how much money they want so that we can “buy” the code, set it under MIT and make it a part of Haiku.
If we have a number we can try to find ways to rais the money (bounty, kickstarter and so on) From my point of view this would be the only way to go… it gives GoBe money and us a Office Suite wich we hardly need on haiku and wich we can continue to develop.

@vidrep can you find out how much it would cost to buy the source??[/quote]

No of course you aren’t the first person to propose paying a whole pile of other people’s money to buy Gobe Productive. By now I imagine you’d be spending a good fraction of that money untangling conflicting commercial claims to the code, trademarks and related rights, if you can even locate the code at all.

Gobe went bankrupt so long ago that there’s no legal obligation to keep the company records. Free Radical, despite lots of optimistic articles on the web, was never even legally brought into existence, let alone able to put together the money to buy Gobe Productive. Blue Lotus, the Indian company who claimed to have bought Productive and were selling it in India may still be trading, with a different web site and completely different product set, or that might be a different company with a similarly unoriginal name.


#11

That’s a very valid point; I myself had looooong forgotten. That’s just another testament to the point though :wink:


#12

[quote=NoHaikuForMe]
No of course you aren’t the first person to propose paying a whole pile of other people’s money to buy Gobe Productive. By now I imagine you’d be spending a good fraction of that money untangling conflicting commercial claims to the code, trademarks and related rights, if you can even locate the code at all.

Gobe went bankrupt so long ago that there’s no legal obligation to keep the company records. Free Radical, despite lots of optimistic articles on the web, was never even legally brought into existence, let alone able to put together the money to buy Gobe Productive. Blue Lotus, the Indian company who claimed to have bought Productive and were selling it in India may still be trading, with a different web site and completely different product set, or that might be a different company with a similarly unoriginal name.[/quote]
So what would you suggest to get a decent office suite on haiku wich fit to the system usability.

(i used only ragtime and pages wich are comparable regarding to the usability)

Openoffice is super horrible to port (http://kohei.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ooo-modules.png :-D)

And the abiword port is absolutly out of date


#13

[quote=Paradoxon]Openoffice is super horrible to port (http://kohei.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ooo-modules.png :-D)

And the abiword port is absolutly out of date[/quote]
KOffice is the way to go, then ! :wink:

http://tiltos.com/drupal/node/17


#14

We need a office suit who is compatible to microsoft office and need a program who will developed for the future. If we get GobeProdictive will be fine, but i think a open office or libre port will be better.

I like to get documents from friends who does not use Haiku, with a gobeproductive port this does not will possible all the time.


#15

Just like Softmaker Office! http://www.softmaker.com/english/ofwpress_en.htm


#16

Some words about why that GoBe for Haiku didn’t happen (I’m gathering this from an IRC discussion).


Some of our developpers got access to the source for GoBe Productive 3. This is the version that runs on Windows and Linux. While it started as a BeAPI wrapper to run the BeOS code on Windows and Linux, they gradually modified their code to use the native APIs directly. This means large parts of the code have to be rewritten to use BeAPI again.


We could never get our hands on GoBe productive 2, the version that ran on BeOS.


The NDA made us unable to mirror the code elsewhere, and the repo where it was hosted is now offline. So that sourcecode is “lost” again. We may have copies, but these are under NDA and can’t be shared.


#17

Thanks for the clarifications.

Given that Productive 3.x would essentially have to be “back-ported” to Haiku, it would appear that a native office suite for Haiku would have to start from scratch since the code for Productive 2.x was locked in the code-safe.

This is rather unfortunate.

Which one will be easier to do? - Re-creating (with improvements) the API and object model underlying Productive or porting Office which is based on foreign API and object model?


#18

GoBe 2 would be a dream!
Has there been any negotiations / discussions about this?
The source would be kind of Haiku compatible and more easy to improve.
And because it´s using Translators, it should be possible to get better MS and Opendocument support…

NoHaikuForHim is right that the lizens stuff is a challenge but it should be possible to sort this out.
No one uses/sells GoBe anymore… so what will they lose? And we can only win :slight_smile:
So we can really start a bounty about this… but if there are no numbers and no goal nothing will happen…
But with a clear Number (price) and Target at least the posibility for the gobe source owners and for us is there.

Ok it also would make sense to have one of the successors like AbiWord or LibreOffice ported over to Haiku but it wouldnt be so fast possible like bring gobe 2 source up to date.

And e.g. on Mac i use most of the time Pages or so … because it integrates much better in the System … but if its necessary i use Libre Office (only because of the best MS support)


#19

Office as a native app / bunch of apps is great. I wish we had native, up-to-date office suite with open license. In the meantime there’s online stuff like Google Docs, Office.com and some others (I know one that even could be run on localhost with web interface).

Having fully featured WebKit port and native WebPositive browser or ports of Firefox/Chrome is more important today than offline Office suite.


#20

[quote=PulkoMandy]Some words about why that GoBe for Haiku didn’t happen (I’m gathering this from an IRC discussion).


Some of our developpers got access to the source for GoBe Productive 3. This is the version that runs on Windows and Linux. While it started as a BeAPI wrapper to run the BeOS code on Windows and Linux, they gradually modified their code to use the native APIs directly. This means large parts of the code have to be rewritten to use BeAPI again.


We could never get our hands on GoBe productive 2, the version that ran on BeOS.


The NDA made us unable to mirror the code elsewhere, and the repo where it was hosted is now offline. So that sourcecode is “lost” again. We may have copies, but these are under NDA and can’t be shared.[/quote]



What would be cool are to make it this Project like Haiku :) replacing one part at a time :).. but then Big part would be under NDA but when I looked at the windows binaries it was devided the same way atleast :)