Documentation on updating Haiku and available repos

[Perelandra0x309]

After installing the Haiku nightly image for the first time I didn’t know how to update it for subsequent releases. I had to do a google search to find the “Haiku daily tasks” page with instructions on how to configure pkgman. Hopefully the new Repositories preflet I am writing will help take care of that, but I still think we need to have some documentation for a new user to describe how to change the repos from the installed hrev to the “current” repo for Haiku and HaikuPorts. Maybe something on the Welcome page?
https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/welcome/welcome_en.html

There should also be a list somewhere of all the known available 3rd party repos like FatELk, BeSly, clasqm, KapiX, etc. On the Applications page maybe?
https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/applications.html

[armanx64]

There’s must be ready to use updater script in uwolke repo.
I’ve installed it via depot long time ago and it works without troubles.

[lelldorin]

There should also be a list somewhere of all the known available 3rd
party repos like FatELk, BeSly, clasqm, KapiX, etc. On the Applications
page maybe?
Applications

You can see the repos here: https://depot.haiku-os.org but there is no link to the websites to get the address to add them.

[michel]

You could use my hpkg add3rdpartyrepos, which contains a script that will add the latest new repos. Just updated it to add kapiX, in fact. But in order to get it, you first have to find and add my repo. catch-22.

It’s a little tricky for the Haiku website to be seen as officially endorsing a 3rd-party repo. Suppose one of us decides to create the world’s first Haiku-specific virus? is the Haiku Project and/or Haiku, Inc liable?

And let’s face it, unless a repo is specifically devoted to the repo owner’s own work, we skirt the edges of legality in a way that “Official Haiku” simply can’t. About half of the apps on my repo are old BeOS apps that date from an era when people were not obsessed with licensing. Yes, youngsters, there was such a time. We call it the Good Old Days.

So if I can’t find any indication of a licensing condition in the documentation or source code, I create a custom “license” document in which I explain this. If source code is available, I then assume that it is Public Domain. If not, I assume that it is copyrighted freeware. So far, so good. It is my sincere hope that every package on my repo will have its author tracked down, be relicensed, recompiled and end up in Haikuports, making my repo completely obsolete, Nothing would make me happier. This repo is an interim measure.

But if an enraged app author comes at me, I can remove the hpkg from my repo at a moment’s notice. That becomes more difficult if the main haiku website is seen as endorsing my repo and its contents. Which is probably why the largest 3rd-party repo doesn’t get a bookmark in WebPositive No, I’m not complaining, I’m not Karl MK II. I can do my own promotion.

The haikudepot web app can get away with this because you actually need to activate these repos before you can use them.

One possible way around this would be a third-party webpage with the 3rd-party repos and instructions. Then the Haiku site could say “here is a link to known 3rd-party repos. By the way, we do not necessarily endorse these repos.”

[Perelandra0x309]

@michel

You could use my hpkg add3rdpartyrepos, which contains a script that will add the latest new repos. Just updated it to add kapiX, in fact. But in order to get it, you first have to find and add my repo. catch-22.[/quote]
Yes that is somewhat helpful, but finding it is tricky. I only found your page with a link to all the active repos a few days ago. That would have been good for me to find back in September.

[quote]It’s a little tricky for the Haiku website to be seen as officially endorsing a 3rd-party repo. Suppose one of us decides to create the world’s first Haiku-specific virus? is the Haiku Project and/or Haiku, Inc liable?

I can see your point but Haiku has already gone there, they list two 3rd party repos and one internet software archive on their welcome page. Why not update it to have a complete list now?

And let’s face it, unless a repo is specifically devoted to the repo owner’s own work, we skirt the edges of legality in a way that “Official Haiku” simply can’t. About half of the apps on my repo are old BeOS apps that date from an era when people were not obsessed with licensing. Yes, youngsters, there was such a time. We call it the Good Old Days.

Hmm, but it seems they already have skirted the edges already , also on the depot website including 3rd party repos there.

So if I can’t find any indication of a licensing condition in the documentation or source code, I create a custom “license” document in which I explain this. If source code is available, I then assume that it is Public Domain. If not, I assume that it is copyrighted freeware. So far, so good. It is my sincere hope that every package on my repo will have its author tracked down, be relicensed, recompiled and end up in Haikuports, making my repo completely obsolete, Nothing would make me happier. This repo is an interim measure.

And we applaud you for this hard work keeping old software alive. We surely miss BeBits, etc.

The haikudepot web app can get away with this because you actually need to activate these repos before you can use them.

How is that different than listing repos on the Welcome or Applications website, where you have to go to the repo website, get the url and add it to package management?

[quote]One possible way around this would be a third-party webpage with the 3rd-party repos and instructions. Then the Haiku site could say “here is a link to known 3rd-party repos. By the way, we do not necessarily endorse these repos.”
[/quote]
I think we’re already half way there. Update the Welcome or Applications website with:
1- Instructions on how to change repos from the included hrev url to the “current” url for Haiku and HaikuPorts.
2- Complete list of known repos (with disclaimer?)

[humdinger]

[quote=“Perelandra0x309, post:5, topic:4489”]
I think we’re already half way there. Update the Welcome or Applications website with:
1- Instructions on how to change repos from the included hrev url to the “current” url for Haiku and HaikuPorts.[/quote]

Once Beta is here, the regular user won’t have to change to “current” anymore. The “Beta” will be fixed point.
In any case, I’ll add how to update the system with “pkgman update” on the Welcome page. Someday that’ll be replaced with the description of the proper GUI panel in the Userguide, I expect.

2- Complete list of known repos (with disclaimer?)

The Welcome page already has a list of all repos. There are links to all repos in the Web+ bookmarks. When I say “all”, I mean every repo that wasn’t forgotten/mixed up. For some reason, I keep mixing up FatElk and Michel’s repo…
I’m sorry about that, I could’ve reacted sooner had anyone pointed that out…

Alternatively, we could do away with the list on the Welcome page and instead point to the website. At Organization | Haiku Project we could add a “Software repositories” with a list of repos. Might be easier to maintain.
Same goes for the Web+ bookmarks.

Once your Repositories prefs make it into the image, we don’t have to send the user to the Terminal and enter commands. We do link to (not quite) all repo’s websites. They have the info what their repo is about and how to add/remove it from the commandline.

[lelldorin]

The Welcome page already has a list of all repos. There are links to all
repos in the Web+ bookmarks. When I say “all”, I mean every repo that
wasn’t forgotten/mixed up. For some reason, I keep mixing up FatElk and
Michel’s repo…
I’m sorry about that, I could’ve reacted sooner had anyone pointed that out…

Are not most known repos already part of the nightly builds?

[Perelandra0x309]

@humdinger

Once Beta is here, the regular user won’t have to change to “current” anymore. The “Beta” will be fixed point.

But they could change to current, to get the latest nightly if they want to upgrade beta?

In any case, I’ll add how to update the system with “pkgman update” on the Welcome page. Someday that’ll be replaced with the description of the proper GUI panel in the Userguide, I expect.

Yes that would be very helpful.

The Welcome page already has a list of all repos. There are links to all repos in the Web+ bookmarks. When I say “all”, I mean every repo that wasn’t forgotten/mixed up. For some reason, I keep mixing up FatElk and Michel’s repo…I’m sorry about that, I could’ve reacted sooner had anyone pointed that out…

There’s a new one by KapiX too.

Alternatively, we could do away with the list on the Welcome page and instead point to the website. At Organization | Haiku Project we could add a “Software repositories” with a list of repos. Might be easier to maintain.Same goes for the Web+ bookmarks.

Yes the website would be easier to maintain. There is the Welcome page that is on the local disk as well as the website (for example Welcome to Haiku!) so maybe on a different page would be easier to maintain.

Once your Repositories prefs make it into the image,

It should be out now with tonight’s build! Hooray!

we don’t have to send the user to the Terminal and enter commands. We do link to (not quite) all repo’s websites. They have the info what their repo is about and how to add/remove it from the commandline.

Yes a link to each repo’s website should be sufficient. Only the official Haiku and HaikuDepot https repos are included by default in the new Repositories preflet (having 3rd party repos included would be a maintenance challenge). But adding a new repo URL is very easy now.

[Perelandra0x309]

Oh and the HaikuDepot userguide should probably be updated with a description of its new Tools/Manage Repositories menu item. And new screenshots since the word “depots” has been changed to “respositories”.

[humdinger]

@lelldorin

Are not most known repos already part of the nightly builds?

As Web+ Bookmarks? Yes, besides Michel’s…
But since the bookmarks aren’t updated with the system, you won’t see additions/removals.

[humdinger]

@Perelandra0x309

But they could change to current, to get the latest nightly if they want to upgrade beta?

They could, but the Welcome page and User guide being official docs, it should advertise that possibility. The official way is to update from release to release, not to some arbitrary, maybe broken or unstable commit.
Don’t worry, with a working packaging infrastructure and a dedicated beta branch, releases will be more frequent…

@Perelandra0x309

There’s a new one by KapiX too.

Yes. IMO, however, we should only accept repos on the mentioned page on this website that offer a collection of software, not personal project repos. Otherwise that list may get very long, and the users will also appreciate having only to manage a few bigger repos.
There should be no problem asking one of the existing ones to add, in this case, KapiX apps. Submit a recipe to haikuports and it’ll get build (soon) automtically into the default repo.

@Perelandra0x309

Once your Repositories prefs make it into the image,

It should be out now with tonight’s build! Hooray!

Congrats to that!

[humdinger]

I have now added a “Software” entry to https://www.haiku-os.org/community that has a link to a new page “Software Sites”. If anyone knows of other sites that should be added or has a better description for a site, let me know.

I’ll now replace the Web+ bookmarks and links on the Welcome page with a link to the “Software Sites” page.

[Perelandra0x309]

@humdinger

I have now added a “Software” entry to Community | Haiku Project that has a link to a new page “Software Sites”.

Nice! I like it.