Can we please ban cb88 from the forum?

I agree with this. It doesn’t seem like there will be improvements in behaviour in the future based on the last discussions here.

There was a time when technical discussions by the developers took place on the mailing lists, and the forum served as more of a “water cooler” for everything else. The atmosphere here was very inviting, even to those without a technical background, and there didn’t seem to be stringent checks on the technical validity of the posts.

As I remember, it was even common to see comments like, “Devs do not use the forum, so post on the mailing list,” sort of (unintentionally?) implying that non-technical, low-level talk (even of questionable technical validity) was generally accepted here.

It seems that at some point, developers started frequenting the forum and using it more and more for technical discussions (which in the past would have taken place on the mailing list). As a result, this appears to have raised the bar for what is implicitly accepted here.

I feel that cb88 may have fallen victim to this paradigm shift.

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If mailing-lists still have some purposes, they are less used nowadays for different reasons.
One of them being search engines. There a good chance that you find the forum before others Haiku sites.

You’ll still see from time to time. “Devs do not use the forum,…” It’s simply that otherwise people are taking the forum for the answer to everything. Like if it was a commercial site, post your shit, an IA will do the triage, process it, fix the bug, and reply to you personally. Except that here, all these things are not done by an IA but by real people that deserve a bit more respect. How many times, have you seen someone throwing a blurry picture, two lines of ranting, then go away?
Actually devs have always been around, some more than others. Users are just gently invited, to report bugs where they belong, to join IRC when their problem is not easy to track, etc

One reason why you see more technical posts is that blogs are creating forum posts. waddlesplash’s activity reports, Begasus Haikuports activity reports, GSOC reports etc are generating reactions. There are also different progress reports on topics of people interest like UEFI, 3D experiments, porting experiments…

Another reason is that Haiku has more users, that implies more devs even if they don’t take part on the project. Globally more people having the technical background for these conversations to exist.

In cb88 case, you shouldn’t judge on a single post. Check and you will see than his interventions are always using the same scheme. On a quite active thread, one post that claims something out of nowhere (understand no real arguments), then when asked to elaborate or for explanations, nothing but repeating first claim more or less politely.
Each post taken independently, perhaps sometimes he’s at the limit but really there is nothing to say. Even if you study one thread, you may not see the pattern. I understand why it can be irritating because it’s only when you take a global view that you can wonder if it is intentional.

Just so you know, following the way the discussion in this thread has gone, hmdinger has decided to resign from his moderator role. So, you will have to find someone else to take care of it.

I am considering doing the same, so then I can use the ignore function of the forum and not see the people I think bring nothing useful to discussions here. I am not interested in a forum where people shout out opinions to each other without any backing in facts, but it seems some people here prefer that, so, I’ll let them have it.

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Sad to hear, but very understandable. Thank you very much @humdinger for doing the moderator’s job for such a long time.

I wholeheartedly agree with that. I still don’t understand why it is that way. We all supposedly share a common interest in our beloved operating system. So why can’t we enjoy our forum with fruitful (and sometimes heated) technical discussions, with a little bit of humor and good intent in general. Sounds easy enough, but it seems it isn’t.

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Sad to hear… but understandable.

Sad to hear. He has always done a good work, being reasonable and diplomatic.

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Yes, it’s a shame, if it’s really because of this discussion. The discussion could be interesting and worth having, I have no real opinion on that, but frankly, it’s bound to draw too much foolish commentary, to really it to heart.

Nothing happened, you act like this is an OS equivlant of a calamity then just a too* long going civil discussion

This post really should be left alone since it’s spriraling into girly drama about one user.

P.S. Why doesnt it reply to the above, could swear I pressed the reply button

If the world around you is always offensive and harsh, the world may not be the issue at hand. If it’s always everyone else, it’s you

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Says the one guy who gets his posts hidden because many users keeps flagging them as inappropriate, and also says someone should fork Haiku but everyone else disagrees.

Yeah… maybe it’s you.

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I have no objections against the tyranny of merit.

The tyranny of a few being offended impinges on the progress of the majority.

Progress is done not by majority but by people capable of doing useful work. Haiku is a libre project, nothing stops you or anyone else from forking it. Are you capable of making it worth?

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In a near future, forum moderation will be done by IA because none will want step up and be blamed for childish behaviour of others. And everyone will regret…

Please no. “AI” is the last thing needed here. If moderators are short staffed, I volunteer. My first decree would be that if nobody has any revelations regarding this topic, please refrain from replying. I thought this thread was soon to be forgotten, but people (me included) can’t help themselves.

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There are two needs impartiality and people to do the job. As long as there will be human doing the job they will be accused to take side. Sorry but when people are giving a lot of their time, they expect something else than insults as payment.
If you look at first post of this thread, for example, it says in short someone doesn’t behave well, why is he still here?
Someone flagged a post, you can’t read it. Blame the moderator.
You posted off topic and you can’t find your post because topics where separated, as it should. Blame the moderator.
Someone flagged you. Never wonder why, blame the moderator.
You don’t like someone. Blame the moderator.
How many unpleasant threads have you seen about moderations these lasts months?
Who want such a job and to be called names? Yes, today some will volunteer here but it’s happening everywhere.
Curiously, it was not a thing before Haiku devs refused to be associated with this guy who sneak into projects and attribute success of others not only to himself but to his party.

I know the feeling…
I am founder and as admin in one, not so big but very active forum.
Well, it has not been easy 4,5 years with it. I have put a lot of MY FREETIME and money to that forum and i have been forced to make many hard decisions over the years for it.

So, in return, have been called a lot of different, not so pleasant, names, i have got very nasty threats by texts, phone, pm etc. Basically what i have learned is, all i do there is always wrong and shitstorms are rising everytime i do something there.

Yeah, not so fun… many times i have thought that, is this really worth for all this shit and i have been very close to shutdown that damn server.
Well, server is still online and i am still alive…

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I believe, in any forum, there should be some fast, hard rules. Otherwise, chaos reigns and decent people leave. If the majority of users deem an individual worthy of being banned, then that person should be given the ultimatum of getting in line or they’ll be kicked. Forum admins/moderators are the rulers of the forum. You do NOT cross them. They say stop, you stop! I know, from personal experience, what being banned is like (not here; elsewhere). And it’s NOT fun. If banning is too harsh/inconvenient, then limit/remove their ability to post/reply. Eventually, the individual will do one of two things: leave or create a new account. If they create a new account, they are determined to be a troll (irritant) and banning is the only option. If they leave… well, they’re gone. End of story.

It’s one thing to discuss/debate a perspective/viewpoint, but when you simply cannot make headway, don’t get nasty about it. Don’t start insulting/name calling. Just walk away. It’s not worth making enemies.

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cb88 has received an official warning from the moderation team. There will be no other action for now. I think we can close this topic now.

The “policies” page on the website has been updated to link to the forum FAQ, which already states the rules here.

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