…once it moves far beyond alpha? I know it’s a stupid idea to use a buggy alpha version as a primary OS? I have looked over haikuware for many apps however I have only managed to get a BeOS spreadsheet application to work…I guess that will change over time. Anyway, here is what I do on the personal computers at home…
Edit word and spreadsheet documents (using Microsoft Office)
Edit 480p video (Windows Live Movie Maker)
Browse the Internet, frequently using Flash for YouTube and a much used website for school homework that is flash based.
Defragment my hard drive.
There could be many more as I may be doing things I am not aware of, but that’s the basics. The second one, I couldn’t find a Haiku video editor anywhere so is there hope for that gap to be fulfilled when the final version is released? I don’t need much currently, just changing the speed of the film for road timelapses and maybe some titles.
There have been many other threads like this but seeing as I’ve done quite alot of the homework I thought I would just ask some of you guys that may know a little more and have some advice.
“Edit word and spreadsheet documents (using Microsoft Office)” - there is a port of KOffice somewhere, but it’s probably going to be broken by now, and depends on Qt. Gobe Productive is old and crappy compared to Office nowadays.
“Edit 480p video (Windows Live Movie Maker)” - Clockwerk might be good enough for your needs
“Browse the Internet, frequently using Flash for YouTube and a much used website for school homework that is flash based.” - BAHAHAHAHA. No seriously, Flash support is non-existent in Haiku. Unless you miraculously get the Gnash port to work (which is buggy and nasty) in BeZilla (which is a port of FF2, so prehistoric)
“Defragment my hard drive.” - Uhhhh, i don’t think BFS really requires defragging that much
[quote=The123king]
“Defragment my hard drive.” - Uhhhh, i don’t think BFS really requires defragging that much[/quote]
As with almost any filesystem so long as you keep the disk pretty empty it isn’t a problem.
If you actually use more of the capacity of the disk then BFS exposes a rather nastier fragmentation problem than any other filesystem you’re used to. In most filesystems the worst that happens is your programs slow down, but in BFS you can get “false” B_DEVICE_FULL errors.
For non-trivial files (anything more than a few kbytes) because the indirects are of fixed size larger than the smallest remaining allocation it’s possible that they can’t be extended using any of the fragmented space. So there’s free space, but you can’t use it for your file.
If you read back through the mailing list archives you’ll see a few people have suffered from this.
There’s a related problem which means BFS can’t handle very large disk images (ie to run a VM from) either.
Thanks guys for replying to me like I am stupid or something, I’ve heard Arora does have flash but I haven’t got it to work yet on Haiku. Anyway, Flash is installed on 90+% of personal computers connected to the internet, it would be criminal not to include it. There doesn’t seem to be much information about Clockwerk on this site.
It isn’t possible to run flash player on Haiku now.
Adobe don’t provide source code for flash player and don’t build it for Haiku. Version for Linux depends of GTK+, what isn’t ported to Haiku.
I’m happy to run away from Flash. Over the years, it’s bloated over reason and slows down things to a crawl. But, some people are forced into it.
Is HTML 5 taken in to account in Haiku? HTML 5 will be a far better “flash” replacement. And anyway, Adobe is having serious ego and control issues. It is the best time to tell them we don’t need you Adobe, you need us.
"I’m happy to run away from Flash."
I too like avoiding Flash but impossible to do. I mostly use Flash to view movie trailers and sometimes YouTube videos and recently been playing a few Flash games. Flash is slow because it uses CPU for graphics rendering. 10.1 added GPU HD decoding. 10.2 should add extra GPU acceleration making Flash work better than current versions. “Adobe® Flash® Player 10.2 introduces new features and enhancements, including a new video hardware acceleration model that enables dramatically enhanced video playback performance.”
I think WebPositive will not get HTML5 support for R1 but depends on Web browser developers. Not sure about latest Arora because haven’t tested. HTML5 will take care of YouTube but pretty sure I’ll still need Flash for trailers (from other websites) & to play Flash games.
[quote=NoHaikuForMe][quote=The123king]
“Defragment my hard drive.” - Uhhhh, i don’t think BFS really requires defragging that much[/quote]
As with almost any filesystem so long as you keep the disk pretty empty it isn’t a problem.
If you actually use more of the capacity of the disk then BFS exposes a rather nastier fragmentation problem than any other filesystem you’re used to. In most filesystems the worst that happens is your programs slow down, but in BFS you can get “false” B_DEVICE_FULL errors.
For non-trivial files (anything more than a few kbytes) because the indirects are of fixed size larger than the smallest remaining allocation it’s possible that they can’t be extended using any of the fragmented space. So there’s free space, but you can’t use it for your file.
If you read back through the mailing list archives you’ll see a few people have suffered from this.
There’s a related problem which means BFS can’t handle very large disk images (ie to run a VM from) either.[/quote]
Say what ? I have a 100gb data drive of Mp4 movies " some of which are several GB" and haiku has no problem ,moving, reading,playing, storing or otherwise using these files. That drive is BFS formatted.
DO you have any factual evidence to back this, or is this more of your blather ?
[quote=thatguy]
Say what ? I have a 100gb data drive of Mp4 movies " some of which are several GB" and haiku has no problem ,moving, reading,playing, storing or otherwise using these files. That drive is BFS formatted.
DO you have any factual evidence to back this, or is this more of your blather ?[/quote]
You can read the Haiku source code for yourself, or check the mailing list archives.
When BFS is creating double indirects and can’t find four contiguous filesystem blocks free, it treats this as the disk being full. It’s not really avoidable, the BFS design requires that indirects be exactly four contiguous blocks in order that seek performance in large files is kept reasonable.
Yes, but a native flash solution will most likely never happen on Haiku so I still think our best bet is a Gnash/Lightspark port short term, and hopefully HTML5 with Webm will be standarized around in the future which will be fully supportable through Haiku.
I believe there were a poor-mans solution to Youtube videos over at Haikuware that allowed you to save the video files to harddrive and play them with media player/vlc.
[quote=NoHaikuForMe]
When BFS is creating double indirects and can’t find four contiguous filesystem blocks free, it treats this as the disk being full. It’s not really avoidable, the BFS design requires that indirects be exactly four contiguous blocks in order that seek performance in large files is kept reasonable.[/quote]
Interesting, I did not know this. Obviously all file systems get fragmented unless they have some automatic functionality of defragmenting them. Anyway, if this is true it means Haiku will need a defragmenter or a BFS overhaul.
[quote=NoHaikuForMe][quote=thatguy]
Say what ? I have a 100gb data drive of Mp4 movies " some of which are several GB" and haiku has no problem ,moving, reading,playing, storing or otherwise using these files. That drive is BFS formatted.
DO you have any factual evidence to back this, or is this more of your blather ?[/quote]
You can read the Haiku source code for yourself, or check the mailing list archives.
When BFS is creating double indirects and can’t find four contiguous filesystem blocks free, it treats this as the disk being full. It’s not really avoidable, the BFS design requires that indirects be exactly four contiguous blocks in order that seek performance in large files is kept reasonable.[/quote]
that 100gb disk is 90% full. I think you or someone else misread or the issue was fixed, works fine on my 486gb parition to.
We already have Gnash 0.8.7 port which worked in the past but requires updating to work on newer versions of Haiku.
Could be awhile from the looks of things. W3C takes time deciding Web standards. An early draft of HTML5 standard was published January 2008. I wonder how much longer WebM vs h264 will push the release back. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
I used it (GreenTube) previously for YouTube. I prefer streaming for first time viewed videos to not waste time downloading them.
True, but HTML5 is being implemented in browsers now instead of waiting for w3c to pin down the exact specifics, rather it’s these implementations that will help w3c to finalize the specifications as I see it. As for WebM/h264 (technically VP8/h264), h264 can’t really be considered a HTML5 solution since it requires licencing in order to be included in software (like browsers). WebPositive with built-in WebM will get us Youtube and likely many other social video sites (DailyMotion, Veoh, Vimeo)…
[quote=tonestone57]
I used it (GreenTube) previously for YouTube. I prefer streaming for first time viewed videos to not waste time downloading them.[/quote]
Same here, which is why I considered it a poor-man’s solution.
[quote=Rox][quote=tonestone57]
Could be awhile from the looks of things. W3C takes time deciding Web standards. An early draft of HTML5 standard was published January 2008. I wonder how much longer WebM vs h264 will push the release back. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
[/quote]
True, but HTML5 is being implemented in browsers now instead of waiting for w3c to pin down the exact specifics, rather it’s these implementations that will help w3c to finalize the specifications as I see it. As for WebM/h264 (technically VP8/h264), h264 can’t really be considered a HTML5 solution since it requires licencing in order to be included in software (like browsers). WebPositive with built-in WebM will get us Youtube and likely many other social video sites (DailyMotion, Veoh, Vimeo)…
[quote=tonestone57]
I used it (GreenTube) previously for YouTube. I prefer streaming for first time viewed videos to not waste time downloading them.[/quote]
Same here, which is why I considered it a poor-man’s solution.[/quote]
I cannot stress to you how many people find this to be a very very high priority. Having no way to play online video content really turns alot of people off to haiku. I have no idea how complex of a task this is, but its certainly a fiarly high priority as alot of people use a PC for interwebz and video watching along with social sites. I’d say power users like those who uses DAW’s and scientific work are in the minority.
If haiku can do VP8/h264 or whatever better. Its all good and gives it a more broad audience. I know at least 10 people that would switch to haiku is Youtube videos could be played.
Hmmm. Okay…I think I already mentioned that I would not switch to haiku until the very final version of R1 is released. Clockwerk doesn’t seem to do much in terms of video editing (effects, transitions, title sequences), or haven’t I just being looking hard enough?
As I already suggested in the dev tracker (http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/6989), it could be interesting to adopt some external backend for a/v content creation management.
I believe that indipendent/cross-platform libraries is the way to follow in order to obtain faster and better results.
[quote=Rox]
True, but HTML5 is being implemented in browsers now instead of waiting for w3c to pin down the exact specifics, rather it’s these implementations that will help w3c to finalize the specifications as I see it. As for WebM/h264 (technically VP8/h264), h264 can’t really be considered a HTML5 solution since it requires licencing in order to be included in software (like browsers). WebPositive with built-in WebM will get us Youtube and likely many other social video sites (DailyMotion, Veoh, Vimeo)…[/quote]
Sure, they may support HTML5 because most of the spec has been nailed down but a couple of things still have to be worked out. You may have not looked at the spec but h264 is listed in there. Of course, that may change now with VP8. They also list Theora, Dirac and MPEG-4.
Licensing is one issue to consider but what about hardware decoding? You’ll have trouble playing VP8 1080p without GPU acceleration & 720p will have high CPU load. Today’s graphics cards only support MPEG-2, VC-1 & H264 in hardware. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/hardware-acceleration-Google-WebM,news-9723.html
I bought a new laptop with Intel HD (h264) around 8-10 months back (& recently a Geforce HD card for desktop) and I’d be unhappy using HTML5 with VP8 running through CPU only. On one hand, I’m glad Google is giving a free alternative but other I’m not happy because I’ll need newer hardware for GPU decoding HD video.