What's stopping you from using Haiku? (as a primary system)

81

No native Steam client.
No hardware acceleration.

I second those (as part of the reason but not the full reason)

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82

Yes, as far as I know. You can search for games you want to run at ProtonDB to see if they run there, how they work and if there’s tweaks needed.
7 Days to Die and Baldur’s Gate 3 seem to work fine for most people under Wine/Proton.

Generally speaking Wine’s so good nowadays only games with kernel-level anti-cheat won’t work properly, at least in multiplayer (single-player modes might be fine depending on the game)

…also, I want to add, while Haiku can’t run Baldur’s Gate 3, it can run Baldur’s Gate 2 (via GemRB) :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

83

On Linux, yes. But not on Haiku

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84

Needed a little to decide to give my 2 cts here or not. Because as simple as the question is - as complex the answers are.
That being said there are at least 2 things always to keep in mind while thinking about this topic.
i) every user is just unique
ii) usage of computers* depends heavily on the user** in front of

(*) private usage
(**) age, experiences, level of interest for that machines/technology

The following text just reflects my personal point of view and is for other people maybe not even worth to read or think about.
Which is absolutely okay.

<tl;dr>
To be clear: I appreciate EVERY effort the of the developers (means: every single line of code is appreciated!).
The following points are in some ways “important” or interesting for me, which means: would be nice to have.
And yes, one should distinguish between basic features of the operating system itself and things extending the usage of the OS. And applications of course.

installation:

  • Netboot. i know that existed years ago and there has been a documentation anywhere for PXE booting HAIKU. Don’t know if it still works (shame on me).
  • chefs kiss: a HAIKU PXE component in a way that every Haiku-Installation elsewhere in the same network can be used as installation source. Maybe a server-component (as media-server or the BeOS net-server) which is only started by user when needed, not by default. I mean, we can install HAIKU from a working installation with the installer to another disk, why not the possibility to pxe-boot a machine from a HAIKU-machine, then start the Installer and go? But i assume that needs net-bfs and mount-possibilities over an existing network.

systemwise:

  • cli tool ack-grep
  • two more options for pkgman: the ability
    1. to export a list of installed packages,
    2. to import a list of all installed packages from another system
    3. OR “synkronise” (instead of 1+2): the possibility for pkgman checking the pkgman of another system via network (UDP/broadcast into same subnet: “heya, pkgmen of this net-segment, what’s your state of installed hpkgs?” to get that informations (and further processing))
  • the media capabilities BeOS (maui0/dano0) had
  • that LockWorkstation; not really security, but keep fingers of people away while making a coffee myself (for later HAIKU versions: maybe an option in bootscript (enable/disable) and triggered before Deskbar and Tracker wil be started)
  • rock-solid nfs support, for backups an network operations in unixoid environments and so on
  • netbfs and ftp-fs

applicationwise:

  • xserver (xlibre) & xwayland server, nice to have remote GUI-Applications via ssh (thx X512 for working on xwayland for HAIKU!!)

  • markdown syntax highlighting for Pe

  • something like BeHappy back in the BeOS-days (which always looked like a special browser) for markdown-files (application with 3 segments in a window:

    • left = filebrowser (like BeTree),
    • middle = editor-panel for md-files,
    • right = preview-window/Interpreter for MD-files

    Like Ghostwriter, which i use in Haiku, but it works “somehow” (crashes also under Linux unfortunately)

  • more stable ftp-client (sometimes ftp-positive crashes here unexpected)

  • beinfo

future:

  • anywhere in the future the ability to emulate a BeOS R.5PE (in a smooth (seamless?) way (capability to exchange files between guest and host), i still LOVE goBe productive (at least the word-processor) for it’s speed and efficency, sorry.) Furthermore i have more commercial (BeOS-)software, which i would like to use…

dreams (system):

  • Haiku on arm (or sbc such as raspberryPi (an Orion O6 (Arm V9) would maybe a beast with HAIKU), could be a well working match)

dreams (applications):

  • recompiled 64bit versions of: (i would definately pay again for all of that applications!)

    • SoundPlay
    • TunePrepper
    • InSiteConstructor & InSiteDesigner
    • Refraction (or maybe Pixel32)
    • goBe Productive (maybe some day the owners there in India would allow such a thing, but i know, the copyright issues…)
    • MailIt (from Beatware)
    • maybe even PersonalStudio (but not sure, the application would need settings for all the new ratios (9:16 and so on)

  • browsr: GitHub - juftin/browsr: 🗂️ a pleasant file explorer in your terminal supporting all filesystems

</tl;dr>

Anyway, following stuff means the view from a simple user, not IT-professionals.

1. strange machines

It wasn’t that easy at the time.
Every minute on the internet had a (sometimes quite expensive) price tag and finding solutions there wasn’t common like nowadays.
It’s been normal to edit ini-files or config-files, modify boot-diskettes, change extension cards (gfx, nic etc.) and RAM-modules, tinkering with jumpers, timing-, frequency- and/or multiplicator settings just to let things work in expected ways.
All that had an enormous impact for understanding that machines and the mode of action of software, drivers, scripts and so on.
All knowledge received in front of small monitors and at night…, master-experiences in attacked eyes and headaches…

So, of course - the usage of computers ~30 years ago has been different quite a bit.
And Personal Computers from that era have been totally different beasts.

2. the past and the stubborns

  • Fiddling with modems… well, i’m glad that stuff is gone.
  • But! ripping CDs is still a thing. Streaming music is disliked here.
  • Email a little - chat a lot, that’s been the way to communicate. I miss the days of BeShare, not for filesharing but for the chats.
  • Watching movies? Yes, beside other applications opened and used. BeOS could do that 25 years ago. Sometimes that odd workflow shines through although the beard has become gray :slight_smile:
  • Writing documentations and stuff, heavy use of goBe productive back then. OpenOffice 1.0 hasn’t been available at that time… and in comparision, goBe productive was lightning fast, intuitive and very easy to use.
  • Things changed a bit since adsl/fast internet-connections has been available

3. the past and the reborns

I tried to keep BeOS (later dano0/Phos/Zeta)-machines alive as long as possible. And so the former mentioned stuff has been my use case until 2013.
Then my last but one BeOS machine died. I kept the very last one as only to boot for the old stuff and only when really needed. And every time the old machine starts i hope the IDE-Drives keep running forever…
And sure, it is a pure nostalgic thing but as the wording is: good old memories. It just feels good. It’s like the ONE girl you met as a young boy you’ve instantly known that she’s the love of your life.

Anyway, it’s been fun and we felt free… but…
Some strange ideas won’t rot on the necropol of ideas, to name two:

3.1 the frankenNAS

As a 100 MBit network at home has grown, there was immediately the need for a NAS. Which is normally a no-brainer, especially today.
But what about the beloved bfs?
Normally i used to use NFS and avoided CIFS (to this day) whenever possible.
But also always liked the attributes of the bfs. So a dark idea took a long way to the brain surface. What about a tiny machine (Raspberries has been a wet dream for thech enthusiasts at that time) with the bfs filesystem accessable via local area network?
A dedicated computer (build together from old parts) running (at that time BeOS), net-server (or later BONE) configured, no deskbar and things not needed disabled at boot, and a muscle-server (thx Mr. J. Friesner!!!) as daemon and BeShare autostarted with automatic login on this (local)host. And, not to forget a vnc-server running to access BeShare on that “NAS” (for “bidirectional file-operations”). Voilá! A storage ready for my files, backups and the ability to search on that “network-storage” for files with special attributes. Without to put them in a tarball or zip-file (to keep attributes).
Cruel stuff back in the days…

3.2 (B)DMS

In those days i had to do a lot with documents and text-files and files for interpreters and just a lot of documentation.
To have a massive amount of human readable files isn’t the problem neither it was 20 or 30 years ago. But to organize them in a clever way let alone searching a specific document and finding it in shortest time… that has been tastiest cherry on top the icing on the cake. At least for me.
And again the possibiltity to store extra attributes and so on… the bfs came like a revelation to my mind.
A DocumentManagingSystem for private use… no way, that’s an overkill i thought (and still think).
But… organizing files, especially documents with that extra attributes? Nothing different it’s what a DMS is doing, they just store that metadata and additional information in a database.

4. old habits die hard

  • few minds still don’t want to disappear, and the possibilities HAIKU offers are far more tempting than on other (desktop-)systems
  • every machine i have access to runs at least a vm with HAIKU since early revisions
  • maybe i should rethink the forementioned frankenNAS and (B)DMS? I mean, the m.u.s.c.l.e.-Server stuff isn’t bad and could be a foundation for a system with NAS possibilities. Sure, some would call it a chimera or so but a headless HAIKU (without Deskbar and Tracker, just a loaded system with bfs and file-sharing enabled) would need something like netbfs, or am i completely wrong? Or a headless linux with bfs-partitions (which should be writable, afaik the current bfs-driver for linux is ReadOnly.
  • last month i revisited old tarballs while searching sth. and found not only the source-code of BeDaliClock which i was looking for, i stumled upon HelloWorld-GUI-Appplication source-files where back in the days someone modified some functions with function-overloading (for what i think to remember) so that the Application-Start and Application-Quit is somewhat animated.
    And at that time this kinda things enjoyed me. To experience the things a computer (can) do, no matter it makes sense or not. A pragmatic view says: what a waste of cpu-cycles! … the child within me yells with big eyes yes! and enjoys the floating Numbers on BeDaliClock or the former mentioned animated GUI.
    Is it time for a alternative Tracker with animated windows (even without GPU HW acceleration)? No, it is not. But the possibility is there. And that hooks.

5. Remember when computing was fun?

I for one, do.
And i am sure others do also.
Especially with HAIKU as Operating System.

I will edit here later, just found the picture to insert here not yet :-/

And so, every time i see a Haiku-Bootscreen it gives me a smile, even after a long workday with very low motivation to use a computer again at that day.

And while sitting on the kitchen-table wearing headphones, listening to preferred songs from mp3-music-library checking some things on a few sites with a cup of good coffee beside the laptop, the mantra continues:

coming home → power a machine on → booting favorite system → seeing the deskbar in the upper right corner → hearing the BeStartUp.wav sound → now, NOW i am home.

As always.
Since decades.
Like BeOS did.

Merry Christmas, fellas!

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85

There’s ripgrep in Haiku.

86 
pkgman search -ai | cut -f8 -d " "
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87

They might, if offered enough money, but the issue there IIRC was the use of commercial 3rd-party libraries for which Gobe had paid license fees. Someone would have to spend time going through the code and finding open-source alternatives. Which might be more possible now than 30 years ago.

88

Most of my jobs can’t be done by haiku,

FIN.

89

Wasn’t the problem with Gobe Productive that the company completely rewrote it for another OS (Windows or Linux) and does not have the source of the original BeOS version anymore?
I’m pretty sure I’ve read something like that here on the forum.

90

Hmm.. Looking at my version of Gobe Productive 2.0 It came with a src.zip file. But it might just be for the Open Source parts like GIMP. Anyway here it is..

91

The README in the archive says the following:

This archive contains source to image filters designed most of which were for use with the GNU Image Manipulation Package.  These have been ported to the libimagemanip API 
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~edmundv/#ImageManip>.

This source is distributed in compliance with the GNU General Public License.  See the file COPYING in any of the subdirectories for details.

So it’s unfortunately not the whole Gobe Productive but only the image filters which are probably not that useful on their own.

92

They ported it to other operating systems by programming a Be API layer for those. IIRC the build system wasn’t able to build the BeOS version anymore, but it should still be possible with a bit of effort to make it run again - which never happened, though.

93

I just tried finding the source code again,without success.
There was an announcement in 2002 that it will be released under GPL,but that never happened.
Fixing the build system will probably be the easiest task once the source code is available (which is unlikely to happen at that point)

94

If I remember correctly, it was a combination of both problems: the code contains third party libraries which should be removed (and replaced) before an open source release could be made. And the existing code is ported to Windows, with a compatibility layer initially, but the BeOS port was not maintained, and the other ports could take some “shortcuts” ignoring the compatibility layer.

And then there’s the problem of findind developers who would want to work on this. And if there is enough interest, the current owners of the code may also want to get some money out of the deal, at least to cover the cost of digging code out of their archives (if not already done) but also legal cost of investigating it and making sure they actually own all of it

95

To finally get to know what we’re even talking about (only assuming Gobe Productive must have been great,I’ve never used it so far),I downloaded the x86 version from Archive.org and tried installing it on 32bit Haiku,but it doesn’t work here :confused:
The installer in the .zip archive opens and lets me select a install location.
When I hit Begin,it shows a message that the install is complete very quickly,but at the selected location it created only a empty folder,nothing else.

96

Legal issues aside, it should be theoretically possible to reverse engineer the code with the help of LLMs. That said, the effort would be better spent improving the Haiku VCL backend of LibreOffice.

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97

Some people want a modern BeOS, others want a modern O/S, whilst this conflict continues, it won’t happen, (using it as a primary O/S).

Most computer users have grown up with MSWindows, & will be looking for a similar look.

People who have looked deeper into their O/S tend to use Linux, & a few more adventurous people use BSD - (even Apple changed to a version of BSD to underpin their Aqua desktop).

You need to allow a new user to be able to at least let it look & act something similarly.

As it is, Haiku is just a hobby O/S, & not likely to pick up many new users….

98

FWIW, the Zeta 1.21 .iso contains a GobeProductive.zip file (8.09 MiB), located under __PACKAGES__/Office.

I just used Expander to unzip into my /RAMDRIVE (a ramfs mount), then double clicked /RAMDRIVE/apps/Office/GobeProductive/GobeProductive, and it worked right away (running 32 bits Haiku nightly).

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99

You can run GbP in 32-bit Haiku in a QEMU VM under a 64-bit host system: I made a video about that about a year ago. There is a considerable performance hit.

The “seamless” part is more problematic: I guess that would mean porting the SPICE utilities.

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100

Speaking of native office solutions,I really wonder why the native AbiWord port gets so few attention.
I just cloned it from HaikuArchives and built it on 32bit without any build errors.
No,it doesn’t work perfectly fine,but it’s good enough as a starting point to improve on.
The app opens and lets me write a text document,but it uses a lot CPU when idle and I can’t click some things and right-click doesn’t work (was that even implemented?) and some other stuff.
It’s a shame that they removed Haiku support from upstream 20 years ago,but those two commits could be reverted and then we could see how far it still goes with the current AbiWord source.
Just an idea,it’s probably very much work to get the 20 year old platform-specific code work again together with the current multi-platform codebase,but having a native word processor might be worth the work.
I really wonder,why does nobody seem to care about AbiWord?
Was there a big showstopper that prevents merging the port back in?
Did they have a major refactor that breaks everything that I don’t know about,or something like that?

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