A thing that will allow Haiku to enter on the world of “used OSes” is availabity of some needed apps, my idea is to create first a list (and if possible, viewable on Haiku Homepage):
Some users leave an entire OS because they did not find their needed apps.
here is my list (complete it with other posts) :
PHP 5
MYSQL 5
JAVA AND JAVAC
APACHE 2.X
A DHCP SERVER (NOT SURE)
OPENOFFICE
GAIM (NOT SURE)
oueshcousin wrote:
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
PHP 5
Quote:
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
MYSQL 5
Quote:
On its way.
JAVA AND JAVAC
Quote:
Why? Its not going to be a server OS. Already supports BeOS R5 anyway.
APACHE 2.X
Quote:
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
A DHCP SERVER (NOT SURE)
Quote:
Also on its way.
OPENOFFICE
Quote:
Why? Nasty GTK+ huge blob of an application vs. the im_kit, which does stuff "the BeOS way". I know which one is more suitable by a long shot.
GAIM (NOT SURE)
MYOB wrote:
oueshcousin wrote:Why? Its not going to be a server OS.PHP 5
Oh, but you forget ONE thing. Many users are using their home computers as all round servers. I have FTP as well as HTTP running. And a CS-server as well.
Quote:
Quote:Why? Its not going to be a server OS.MYSQL 5
Oh but you… (the same as above)
Quote:
Quote:Why? Its not going to be a server OS. Already supports BeOS R5 anyway.APACHE 2.X
Oh but you… (the same as above)
Quote:
Quote:Why? Its not going to be a server OS.A DHCP SERVER (NOT SURE)
Oh but you… (the same as above)
Quote:
Quote:Why? Nasty GTK+ huge blob of an application vs. the im_kit, which does stuff "the BeOS way". I know which one is more suitable by a long shot.GAIM (NOT SURE)
Well… Gaim? Hmm… it could be ported, and it’s not that much of a big blob. Nor is it nasty. I know you don’t like the world as it is, but your behaviour is getting radically worse for each every day, old grumpy man.
I don’t think there is any reason to port Gaim, but if people want to then fine with me. OpenOffice however… naah… too big too bloated, just like most other office suites. Porting applications like Abiword and Gnumeric would be better. Perhaps utilizing some code from OO.o in order to get better import and export in regard to MS fileformats.
Whether or not it’s going to be a server OS is nothing of your business. This is user dependant, and there’ll be a lot more home servers running Haiku than you think.
Stop living in the stone age and say hello to the 5 year old millenia 
GAIM is the OO.o of instant messanging, so that analogy is fairly useless. Home server or not, using a desktop OS to serve using UNIX powertools is insane, R5 included a basic FTP and HTTP server.
I’ll stop living in 1999 when something good comes out of the past 6 years. There hasn’t been much
MYOB wrote:
GAIM is the OO.o of instant messanging, so that analogy is fairly useless. Home server or not, using a desktop OS to serve using UNIX powertools is insane, R5 included a basic FTP and HTTP server.I’ll stop living in 1999 when something good comes out of the past 6 years. There hasn’t been much
and what about that list ??
surely there are some apps that are urgently needed for making a place for haiku on the open source market…
these apps could be optional (not included in the haiku distro)
oueshcousin wrote:
MYOB wrote:GAIM is the OO.o of instant messanging, so that analogy is fairly useless. Home server or not, using a desktop OS to serve using UNIX powertools is insane, R5 included a basic FTP and HTTP server.I’ll stop living in 1999 when something good comes out of the past 6 years. There hasn’t been much
and what about that list ??
surely there are some apps that are urgently needed for making a place for haiku on the open source market…
these apps could be optional (not included in the haiku distro)
I answered the entire list. Theres a lot of server apps. Theres a bloated IM client, when BeOS already has a good IM client. Theres an office suite and a programming language virtual machine that are both being ported already.
Here’s one thing I’d like to see: DVD authoring software.
I have a HD-recording digital sat receiverwith a network interface that records all sorts of stuff. I’d like to be able to demux/cut/mux it all, create menus, master a DVD, shrink it so it fits on a 4.35GB DVD and burn that.
MYOB wrote:
oueshcousin wrote:MYOB wrote:GAIM is the OO.o of instant messanging, so that analogy is fairly useless. Home server or not, using a desktop OS to serve using UNIX powertools is insane, R5 included a basic FTP and HTTP server.I’ll stop living in 1999 when something good comes out of the past 6 years. There hasn’t been much
and what about that list ??
surely there are some apps that are urgently needed for making a place for haiku on the open source market…
these apps could be optional (not included in the haiku distro)I answered the entire list. Theres a lot of server apps. Theres a bloated IM client, when BeOS already has a good IM client. Theres an office suite and a programming language virtual machine that are both being ported already.
I have to somewhat agree with MYOB here (which I don’t always) - most of that list was just server-software - big deal. Who installs MySQL for every day use? Who installs PHP 5 to run their desktop software?
The GAIM thing is tough - a newer version of GTK+ must be ported first - which may be much easier with Haiku than it was with BeOS due to the better posix support promised… I do think it’s a good idea anyhow - as it is a cross-platform IM client that supports multiple protocols. It may be unclean, and bloated - but it’s still a good app to support for users who want to make the jump to Haiku and still use the same day-to-day software that they’re used to.
This is why I also support OO.o, Firefox, and Thunderbird - I believe these have the potential to become “staples” for the majority of users worldwide no matter what operating system you use.
lichtgestalt wrote:
Here's one thing I'd like to see: DVD authoring software. I have a HD-recording digital sat receiverwith a network interface that records all sorts of stuff. I'd like to be able to demux/cut/mux it all, create menus, master a DVD, shrink it so it fits on a 4.35GB DVD and burn that.
Agreed.
I’d also like to see a free non-GIMP image editing application, a more OS-integrated web browser then firefox, a light-weight http/php/mysql server combo for the web designers/website writer coder people thingies, and alot more drivers.
But i agree with MYOB in terms of Gaim, there’s no real point.
Why all this talk of porting all the time? These forums are filled with it. Why the heck should GTK software be ported to BeOS? Instead of porting god damn every app from Linux, why not use Linux which the apps are ment and written for?
Let’s rather foucs on writing good quality BeOS apps! I know there are limits when it comes to developers, but I would seriously rather see no IM client than all that Linux crap. And whats that with porting RPM. Please.
PetterHJ wrote:
Why all this talk of porting all the time? These forums are filled with it. Why the heck should GTK software be ported to BeOS? Instead of porting god darn every app from Linux, why not use Linux which the apps are ment and written for?Let’s rather foucs on writing good quality BeOS apps! I know there are limits when it comes to developers, but I would seriously rather see no IM client than all that Linux crap. And whats that with porting RPM. Please.
Agreed - except for the chicken-egg syndrome of a new OS…
Haiku will have to support SOME ported software if it wants to steal users from other OSes… there’s just too much inertia to overcome otherwise.
The fact that so many people want “their app” ported is an exact example of this. There are many who will not SERIOUSLY look at Haiku until their every-day apps are ported. And they certainly won’t try out any of Haiku’s elegant/clean apps until they’ve seriously looked at Haiku. It nearly has to be this way…
On the other hand, as the world begins to use more web-based applications (email is an example of this) - having their favorite app ported won’t be a problem - as long as there’s a good standards-compliant and capable web browser available to the OS.
Support for cross-platform software is another win for alternative-OSes here - supporting Java and .NET (mono) apps can’t hurt…
In the end, it takes time and effort to do anything - re-writing the world’s most-used apps for Haiku is one way, porting them is another - developers have their opinions, users have others - it will ultimately depend on who screams the loudest and waves the money around.
Also, don’t forget that many of these apps are not just “Linux crap” - but also many have been ported to windows and MacOSX, losing much of their linux-like behavior in the process.
oueshcousin’s points about PHP, SQL and such still have merit if you want to web-develop on Haiku. A local setup is pretty handy (and much faster) for web site development.
Does that help to answer your “why”, MYOB?
togs_01 wrote:
oueshcousin's points about PHP, SQL and such still have merit if you want to web-develop on Haiku. A local setup is pretty handy (and much faster) for web site development.Does that help to answer your “why”, MYOB?
I web develop from whatever machine I’m working on at the time, all the stuff is stored on my NetBSD box. Which is far, far more capable of hosting apache/php/mysql than BeOS or Haiku ever will be. And its much faster than if the software was on the BeOS box, because its sitting in a cupboard across the room from me connected by 100Mbps ethernet.
I can’t see the point of using a desktop OS to run server iron. People did web development on the Mac for -years- before it was even capable of such a concept. Same with Windows 9x.
A good console based irc client! Something like Irssi, or maby even a port of Irssi 
BeOS has been blessed with Postgresql since version 6. Not wanting to troll but until MySQL 5, it was no competition - BeOS had the better database.
Yes, BeOS is a desktop OS, yes people will run simple servers, but don’t ask for another database when we’ve already got a fantastic one.
PHP5 will probably compile if someone takes a couple on months to remove all the bad hacks in it. I spent a lot of time working with David Reid and Peter Moore trying to get another PHP to compile after the joint Webserver Kit we put together.
For web development, the one thing that BeOS (has always) lacked is good quality web development tools (vi, notepad, emacs, and that god awful thing on bebits). Mozilla’s site editing tools are the best you’ve got, so maybe Nvu would be an option?
MYOB wrote:
togs_01 wrote:oueshcousin's points about PHP, SQL and such still have merit if you want to web-develop on Haiku. A local setup is pretty handy (and much faster) for web site development.Does that help to answer your “why”, MYOB?
I web develop from whatever machine I’m working on at the time, all the stuff is stored on my NetBSD box. Which is far, far more capable of hosting apache/php/mysql than BeOS or Haiku ever will be. And its much faster than if the software was on the BeOS box, because its sitting in a cupboard across the room from me connected by 100Mbps ethernet.
I can’t see the point of using a desktop OS to run server iron. People did web development on the Mac for -years- before it was even capable of such a concept. Same with Windows 9x.
Not everybody has such a setup, not even amongst webdevelopers.
So yes. these “server”-OS’es packages have a place in Haiku.
It’s not your decision what belongs to Haiku, but the users of Haiku, and you are only one of them. Don’t forget the rest.
Mr.Jones wrote:
Not everybody has such a setup, not even amongst webdevelopers.So yes. these “server”-OS’es packages have a place in Haiku.
It’s not your decision what belongs to Haiku, but the users of Haiku, and you are only one of them. Don’t forget the rest.
I think his point was that they’re not “mission critical” as the topic implied (“very urgent needed apps list”) and I agree - I don’t think I hardly ever run into a need for those server-based apps on a daily basis, so I certainly wouldn’t call them “urgently needed”
umccullough wrote:
I think his point was that they're not "mission critical" as the topic implied ("very urgent needed apps list") and I agree - I don't think I hardly ever run into a need for those server-based apps on a daily basis, so I certainly wouldn't call them "urgently needed"
I can’t run a system without them. Remove one of them and my system crumbles to dust :lol:
But of course these packages aren’t “mission critical” to the newbie user. But they are needed none the less for those of us who do more than listening to MP3, Ogg Vorbis or watching videos (and don’t go sharing those you may not share - share those videos you may share - like Star Wreck - in the pirkinning).
Mr.Jones wrote:
umccullough wrote:I think his point was that they're not "mission critical" as the topic implied ("very urgent needed apps list") and I agree - I don't think I hardly ever run into a need for those server-based apps on a daily basis, so I certainly wouldn't call them "urgently needed"I can’t run a system without them. Remove one of them and my system crumbles to dust :lol:
But of course these packages aren’t “mission critical” to the newbie user. But they are needed none the less for those of us who do more than listening to MP3, Ogg Vorbis or watching videos (and don’t go sharing those you may not share - share those videos you may share - like Star Wreck - in the pirkinning).
Then I would assume you are developer or IT professional - where a “desktop OS” is not what you’re specifically looking for (workstation OS is probably more applicable).
What desktop users need PHP, MySQL, and Apache to do their daily tasks?
Why would they need a DHCP server (most wireless/broadband routers already have one built in anyway these days)
I must be missing something - but the majority of standard desktop os users doesn’t need most of these server tools… which is all that MYOB was trying to point out.
as a 08/15 user of desktop OS I`m looking for:
a good office
good media support
good internet client
good support for my hardware
And of course:
good games!