Time to act

What is needed and how do we start?

You could start to check out https://dev.haiku-os.org/

I meant in regards to getting more\new people part of Haiku, Inc.

https://www.haiku-inc.org/contact/

Yes, send lots of emails to haiku inc saying you are willing to help.

The tasks are:

  • Updating the haiku inc website (donation report, news about the activities of the inc when they do something)
  • Checking the bank accounts to make sure we know where money comes from and where it is spent
  • Discussing with the other inc board members to decide on how to spend the money

As these things are rather sensitive topics, it may not be that easy to get in. You first have to convince the people currently running the inc that you are a good choice and won’t run away with all the money.

100% this. As someone on the Haiku, Inc. board, I can speak to it.

Since I came onto the board of directors a few years ago (2015!), there have been two folks who have stepped up and asked to be on the board. Both of those individuals are now board members. (Jessica and Rene)

Haiku, Inc. (the “NPO”) is a 501©(3) non-profit organization dedicated to supporting the Haiku Project (the “Project”) and the development of Haiku® (the “Software”). At a minimum, the Project is comprised of those individuals with commit access to the Software’s source code repositories.

From https://www.haiku-inc.org

During our next meeting, I’m going to propose language that individuals filling the Treasurer and Secretary role get direct bank account access. (the Treasurer is the primary individual, Secretary is a “backup”). As usual, Haiku, Inc. can’t “spend” money without board approval. This is kind of a “soft truth” today, but not written down anywhere.

This will help taking “less known / trusted” individuals onto the board and not giving them direct funds access.

As a side note, Urias has stepped down from the Haiku, Inc. board of directors. I updated the Haiku, Inc. website to reflect this. He wasn’t filling a “named seat”, so we don’t have any urgent backfill priorities. (not to say we wouldn’t accept someone interested in back filling his position)

Some years ago i noticed the lack of the financial reports, so i said to myself i could do that, but i was told the position is filled thus i never sent the mail. I will try to get my application in shape again then i guess.
Should i get a certificate of good conduct for the application?

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Technically the positions are filled at the moment :smiley: also the financial reports are done.
https://www.haiku-inc.org/documents/

@extrowerk, however you are more than welcome to apply to the board of directors. You’ll get voting power and could always “step into” the Treasurer or Secretary role in the future.

Should i get a certificate of good conduct for the application?

lol, I don’t think that’s needed (unless you think it would help) :slight_smile:

A few references from the community to “vouch” for you would be good however. (I know you’ve been around for a while, no doubts there).

Once you have this all together, send Haiku, Inc. an email. https://www.haiku-inc.org/contact/

Include: Real name, handle, location (country, city), a little about yourself, your experiences with Haiku, anything you think would help.

Will do, thanks!

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If you don’t want that you shouldn’t have released Haiku as an Open Source project. Anyone can “buy” Haiku and make it whatever he/she wants. Someone with enough money does not need any board member’s voice so I don’t see an issue if someone doing a big donation would get extra decision power as he can fork Haiku anyway and make whatever he/she wants.

The issue with Haiku is the lack of a vision/team working on the same goals. Of course anyone can do whatever he/she wants with it but if Haiku’s goal is to offer another alternative, which will get mass-adopted, it needs a team with a common vision/goal. No question about that. On the other side, Haiku could of course full-fill it’s current role for plenty of years to come: a hobby OS for people that like to tinker around and have fun.

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Hence we stick around for almost 20 years, and not about to look for anything else :slight_smile:

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You have just states the two goals of Haiku.

  • A hobby OS for people that like to tinker around and have fun
  • An alternative OS which will get mass-adopted

We don’t plan to pick one against the other. They work together quite well for us so far. I think the agreement on these two goals is fairly well shared by all developers (some having more interest in one or the other, but that’s no problem for me).

If you want to remove the “tniker around and have fun” part to get more focus on the mass adoption, you have to find another way to motivate the developers. I don’t see much options except paying them for some of their time. And even then, the job offer has to be more interesting than whatever they are currently working on. Either higher paying (that sounds unlikely in the current situation) or still a bit more fun and interesting; and also, from what I know, the two devs who announced interest in something like that (waddlesplash and me) said we’d do it only if there is some guarantee that it’s a long term job and not something that lasts just a year or two until the inc runs out of money (already did that, won’t do it again, especially because my current paid job works quite well for me).

I can’t speak for everyone, maybe someone else is ready to do it in a more short term way or under different conditions. Haiku inc will review all offers :slight_smile:

Yes, but they don’t get the trademark usage in that case. So, they can use our sourcecode (that’s fine, it’s indeed opensource and I’m personally quite happy to see it used in other new and unexpected ways).

What Haiku inc protects is:

  • Our infrastructure (servers hosting the code, website, etc)
  • The Haiku trademark (and the distro guidelines defining how it can be used)
  • How the money from donations is spent

In the way things are set up now, donations are really donations, and people can’t really decide how the money they donated is used. Other funding schemes are possible (bounties, for example, or if you have a lot of money to spend, hiring someone directly to work in Haiku) and they don’t really need the cooperation of Haiku inc. For example you could simply create some bounties at https://www.bountysource.com/teams/haiku/issues , advertise them here, and see if someone is interested (either to donate money or work on the things). It doesn’t seem very succesful so far, despite the page being around for a few years already.

The 2019 financial report is not impressive. It is not in conformity with generally accepted accounting standards; it’s in three different currencies; and approximately one quarter of the assets appear to be held in Bitcoin. Basically, it’s not a proper set of accounts, and it should be. At the very least there should be an income & expenditure account and a balance sheet.

Holding Bitcoin is a gamble, nothing more, and as a (small) contributor to Haiku’s finances I am concerned that my contributions could just be blown away by an adverse movement in Bitcoin’s value.

If people want to gamble with Bitcoin, let them do so with their own money. Haiku’s board should not be doing it with other people’s money. All Bitcoin income should be converted immediately upon receipt to a proper currency.

Haiku is clearly in need of both a book-keeper, to keep the records, and an accountant to produce accounts (who might also be the treasurer). Somebody else should handle payments, at the request of the treasurer.

Doing the job properly will not be time-consuming if the persons involved know what they are doing.

Haiku inc has bitcoins because some donations were made in bitcoins. They did not buy bitcoins using donations in other currencies. So, it’s “gambling” money that was already this way when donated. It does not put the other donations at risk in any way.

Likewise, they actually have separate account balances in $ and € (on Paypal, for example) and that’s why the accounting is done separating the two. Not everything is immediately transferred to the bank account in dollars immediately. In this situation it is not possible to keep track of things in a single currency, as the value of currencies change all the time.

This also allows reduction of conversion fees because the money is usually spent in the same currency that it was donated - for example, travel expenses for people going to FOSDEM, etc are paid in €, from the donations in €, while website hosting is paid in $, with donations paid in $. Conversions are made only when needed because there is a large expense in one currency and not enough of it available. So it’s trying to minimize the amount spent in bank transactions, paypal fees, etc and making optimal use of the money. It does indeed make the whole thing a bit more difficult to follow.

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:grin::wave:

Yeah so that’s kinda me. Not for want or desire though.

Sorry, but you are not an accountant, so you lack the knowledge to make a proper answer.

There is no reason why Haiku shouldn’t have bank accounts in several currencies; in fact it makes perfect sense as it saves on conversion costs. However, financial reports are unintelligible when expressed in multiple currencies, so they should be expressed in a single currency to which all others should be converted.

I am fully aware that Haiku accepts donations in Bitcoins. My point is that these need to be converted quickly into a non-volatile currency. If Haiku loses say 10% of its assets because of a Bitcoin crash, then the donations of people like me are going to be spent partly on making up the shortfall. This is not why I contribute to Haiku.

I do realise that Bitcoin could go up in value, but hanging onto Bitcoin in the hope that it will do so is currency speculation, pure and simple. And Haiku Inc is not meant to be a currency speculator.

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Are you?

Because it seems PulkoMandy has given a definite answer which you’ve seemed to ignored.

Many reasons. Lots of fee’s and let’s not forget about taxes. This isn’t a personal bank account, this would be business banking.

Haiku would have to have a registered business in those the different countries to get access to business factors and that follows with further laws and more associated costs. Your adding complication to the matter, so Hakiu can accept money in $,£ and Euro? Especially within PulkoMandy’s reply states that they can already convert when they need.

Fee’s such as accountancy, business, legal, and yearly payment fee’s. Unless your a multi-national company where your exports and are trading outside of your home country there is no point.

This is not why I contribute to Haiku.

Sounds selfish. “I’m not donating until they do it my way”

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This prolly isn’t about what you think it is about @paw, rather that they don’t want their donations to be spent on making up a shortfall and prefer having them go to actually improving Haiku. I don’t think it is selfish, as that’s how donations should ideally be used: for the benefit of Haiku and its developers.