I have now created an account now. Before I was trying to subscribe without creating an account first (boy am I dumb) and yes they have very quickly helped me there! I already see my driver working better and hope to get it working complete by the weekend.
This is why I like Haiku-OS, the developers are far more friendly/helpful than the Linux developers I have talked to locally. And the Linux forums are over-full of people like ‘NoHaikuForMe’ which does not make asking questions something you want to do. Mostly I just read the Linux forums that cover subjects I am interested in, but re-frame from asking questions.
[quote=Earl Colby Pottinger]I have now created an account now. Before I was trying to subscribe without creating an account first (boy am I dumb) and yes they have very quickly helped me there! I already see my driver working better and hope to get it working complete by the weekend.
This is why I like Haiku-OS, the developers are far more friendly/helpful than the Linux developers I have talked to locally. And the Linux forums are over-full of people like ‘NoHaikuForMe’ which does not make asking questions something you want to do. Mostly I just read the Linux forums that cover subjects I am interested in, but re-frame from asking questions.[/quote]
Mostly I find linux developers to be hacks, Not hackers. Just hacks.
[quote=tonestone57]
Just last year in 2010 did R. Stallman (GNU leader) finally give into Linux kernel.[/quote]
Jeez, you are starting to spread lies at the same rate as thatguy, I had respect for you tonestone but that is quickly fading.
FSF put Hurd on the back-burner AGES ago as soon as Linux started gaining traction and focused on providing the gnu tools needed for Linux to become a self-sufficient system, (compilers, core/binutils, libs etc) and the Hurd hasn’t seen any serious development since.
[quote=tonestone57]
NoHaiku is right that Linux kernel has been available and would give many drivers (that’s why Android OS uses it) but fails to say that it is huge, bloated & inefficient. ie, a real big mess[/quote]
Back this claim up, show me some benchmarks that show Linux to be huge, bloated and inefficient!
You try so hard to paint Linux as inefficient which obviously has something to do with some crazy notion that monolithic kernels are somehow the root of all evil, despite the fact that you can’t point to a single factual thing as to why that would be.
I find it easy to ignore the stupidity of thatguy, since he obviously has no clue whatsoever, but you atleast seems to have basic computer knowledge. And yet you are just throwing out sweeping statements with nothing to back them up with. It’s just sad when someone like NoHaikuForMe is pretty much the only one in this thread who presents FACTS.
And why is it that guys like tonestone and thatguy are so hellbent on mudslinging Linux? I find it so damn sad since as a huge Haiku fan I want Haiku to attract developers and the NUMBER ONE place from where Haiku has a hope of attracting them is from that of other ‘alternative’ operating systems of which Linux is by far the largest. And instead I see morons like thatguy popping up on Linux oriented boards attacking Linux like some frothing-at-the-mouth madman while waving the Haiku banner, totally idiotic.
It’s no wonder this community starts to seem stale when it’s filled with such crazy haters. I’m really losing faith here, and seeing some weirdo like NoHaikuForMe coming across as the ‘voice of reason’ in this thread just underlines that.
[quote=Rox][quote=tonestone57]
Just last year in 2010 did R. Stallman (GNU leader) finally give into Linux kernel.[/quote]
Jeez, you are starting to spread lies at the same rate as thatguy, I had respect for you tonestone but that is quickly fading.
FSF put Hurd on the back-burner AGES ago as soon as Linux started gaining traction and focused on providing the gnu tools needed for Linux to become a self-sufficient system, (compilers, core/binutils, libs etc) and the Hurd hasn’t seen any serious development since.
[quote=tonestone57]
NoHaiku is right that Linux kernel has been available and would give many drivers (that’s why Android OS uses it) but fails to say that it is huge, bloated & inefficient. ie, a real big mess[/quote]
Back this claim up, show me some benchmarks that show Linux to be huge, bloated and inefficient!
You try so hard to paint Linux as inefficient which obviously has something to do with some crazy notion that monolithic kernels are somehow the root of all evil, despite the fact that you can’t point to a single factual thing as to why that would be.
I find it easy to ignore the stupidity of thatguy, since he obviously has no clue whatsoever, but you atleast seems to have basic computer knowledge. And yet you are just throwing out sweeping statements with nothing to back them up with. It’s just sad when someone like NoHaikuForMe is pretty much the only one in this thread who presents FACTS.
And why is it that guys like tonestone and thatguy are so hellbent on mudslinging Linux? I find it so damn sad since as a huge Haiku fan I want Haiku to attract developers and the NUMBER ONE place from where Haiku has a hope of attracting them is from that of other ‘alternative’ operating systems of which Linux is by far the largest. And instead I see morons like thatguy popping up on Linux oriented boards attacking Linux like some frothing-at-the-mouth madman while waving the Haiku banner, totally idiotic.
It’s no wonder this community starts to seem stale when it’s filled with such crazy haters. I’m really losing faith here, and seeing some weirdo like NoHaikuForMe coming across as the ‘voice of reason’ in this thread just underlines that.[/quote]
Well, think whatever you want, I certainly do not care. 80+ % of computer users have spoken, linux desktop sucks and no amount of evangelizing will change this fact.
I have never said linux was inefficient. I said linux is a big mess, and frankly there is no refuting that statement. That and I dislike the attitudes of most linux users.
the only people spreading lies here are the linux users. They must feel threatened by haiku. why else bother with the community here ?
Not right because people are still working on Hurd at a slower pace. You understand that there’s a difference between slow development and no development? Also, the microkernel choice has changed a couple of times setting Hurd back further.
Yet for some reason Debian offers Hurd release. Also development on Hurd is still going on with the release of GNU/Hurd 0.401. http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
“The Hurd is under active development, but does not provide the performance and stability you would expect from a production system. Also, only about every second Debian package has been ported to the GNU/Hurd. There is a lot of work to do before we can make a release.” http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
Posted Nov 25, 2010 “How many developers are working on the GNU Hurd?
Not many. One handful work on it in their free time, and another two handful do help with Debian GNU/Hurd and Arch Hurd packaging. Also, an additional handful of former developers are still available for answering technical questions, but are not really participating in the current development anymore.” http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq.html
I’ve already done this. I provided a link to a news story where Linus admits to this himself. Of course you may argue that was in 2009 and now 2 years later but the situation is not likely to have improved. Direct quotes from Linus & the reporter to prove this:
[quote]LinuxCon 2009 Linux creator Linus Torvalds says the open source kernel has become “bloated and huge,” with no midriff-slimming diet plan in sight.
Citing an internal Intel study that tracked kernel releases, Bottomley said Linux performance had dropped about two per centage points at every release, for a cumulative drop of about 12 per cent over the last ten releases. “Is this a problem?” he asked.
“We’re getting bloated and huge. Yes, it’s a problem,” said Torvalds.
“I mean, sometimes it’s a bit sad that we are definitely not the streamlined, small, hyper-efficient kernel that I envisioned 15 years ago…The kernel is huge and bloated, and our icache footprint is scary. I mean, there is no question about that. And whenever we add a new feature, it only gets worse.”
Linus directly says the kernel is getting bloated & huge himself!!! So now you don’t even believe Linus? I also showed the code size of the kernel getting bigger and bigger very fast which makes it more open to code bloat. Do you even read any of my posts or links? I gave that same link above in another post in this very thread. I am sure I provided the exact same quotes in that other post too.
The inefficient issue was in comparison to previous releases of the Linux kernel. With every release the kernel was getting slower and slower. ie, becoming inefficient; performance was dropping - took 12% hit. The benchmark was provided and done by Intel. Maybe you don’t believe Intel either? I did say inefficient right? Pretty sure I never compared or stated worse or better than other OS kernels in performance. There is a difference between the two. You do realize that?
I was trying to point out that because Linux kernel is huge, bloated, inefficient and complex that many alternative OSes don’t bother using it. Those are the reasons why the GNU project itself is looking to not use Linux kernel and move to Hurd in the next 10 years. R. Stallman only recently accepted Linux kernel in 2010 because 1) way too slow development on Hurd 2) performance issues to deal with because Hurd was still not finished 3) the vast amount of drivers for Linux kernel. Had there been more developers then Mr. Stallman would have been pushing for Hurd instead. Why should other OSes use the Linux kernel when they cannot even convince the GNU project to use it? Can you not see the irony there?
Bottomley says the results are from a “database benchmark that we can’t name”. That’s right, they can’t even tell you what they tested. Intel posted results from an unnamed OLTP benchmark. We might reasonably choose to imagine that this is TPC-C, probably on Oracle. We know the hardware involved is a Nehalem Xeon monster 72GB RAM system with 192 SSDs.
There’s a fair amount of crazy involved here, their “benchmark” system does things no actual production database would do, for example we know it ran in realtime priority, which means that changes to Linux aimed at realtime systems will mess with the results. But the whole point of a realtime priority is that you are willing to trade throughput for scheduling reliability - and the benchmark measures throughput but doesn’t care about scheduling. So that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
But despite these caveats Intel’s benchmark posting to LKML was useful to identify and fix some regressions. By 2010 when Intel appear to have discontinued this project‡, the gap had narrowed from 12% to 0.8%. There is essentially no equivalent regression testing for Haiku of course.
The results speak for themselves, don’t they?
‡ The real purpose of these postings is pretty transparent, Intel engineers needed to learn how to tune a Linux system for TPC benchmarks, they learned a lot about doing that from the feedback they received, and this doubtless helped them achieve some record results for new Intel systems in 2010.
Syllable and Haiku are not related they just have the same file system that is it. Syllable is based of of Athe OS witch is an Amiga os 3 aka “Clasic” clone. Syllable is a joke, an os for way out dated hardware. You know one of those floppy OS’s like Menuent and Kollapi. Dex is more usable. The only time Syllable is better then haiku is in the VM, heck even React OS is better in a VM. Haiku is better and that is it…