But that’s a KDE problem not a Haiku one. Haiku shouldn’t be blamed because the framework can’t be split further to reduce dependencies.
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It is being resolved as a dependency of Kate via gst plugins. But Kate seems to not (and cannot) use it.
Kate is not dependent on it but the package manager think it is. To me it is a misconfiguration, ie a bug.
I highly doubt that they cannot be split. I suspect this is all due to misconfiguration of dependencies. In other words Haiku’s fault.
If it was KDE’s fault I should not have been able to manually uninstall x265 and still have it fully working.
If it could be split then the Linux packages probably would have done it already. As my earlier post showed, the output of the pactree command on Arch also shows multimedia libraries as dependencies, so this is not specific to Haiku.
As @nephele said, If it was truly a dependency of Kate then the package system would have asked you to remove Kate when it noticed the required dependencies had been removed.
That is a strawman argument; what others do proves nothing. You need to prove that the dependency resolution is impossible to do. I proved that it is (at least partly) possible by uninstalling one of the dependencies without breaking anything.
I am pretty sure that is not how Haiku’s package management system works. It only wanted to remove one package which was a gst plugin package (can’t remember the name).
The video in the thread start, and the reason for this discussion, clearly proves you both wrong. The user installs Kate on a newly installed Haiku system and it resolves to installing x265 among other packages.
There are sometimes different packages that can provide the same requirements in haiku. Most dependencies are NOT on packages but rather on library names, executable names etc. which linux package managers usually cannot do.
If you deinstall a library it is completely possible that the dependency on whatever is in the package can be resolved another way.
But if it is truely a dependency then the package management system will not allow you to remove it without also removing the dependent application (i.e kate)
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You just keep inventing new word salads instead of admitting what you say is irrelevant to what this discussion is about: packages that are not needed is installed via wrong dependency resolution.
If what I have found is wrong, please prove me wrong (word salads are not proof) so we can use that information in order to find a solution to the problem.
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You not understanding terms is not my problem, and I’m not going to construct any mathematical proof for this
So far you have not presented anything that is worthy of dismantling as such, you only complained about dependency resolution and refuse to listen to the why, only insisting that it is somehow a misconfiguration (which it cannot be, as there is nothing to configure).
Anyhow, since you did not care for any of the responses just accept that linux apps bring this dependency hell with them and leave it at that.
Edit: "That is a strawman argument; what others do proves nothing. "
Also, no. this is not a strawman. A strawman is where you construct a ficticious argument for the other side and then attack it. Which clearly wasn’t the case here.
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What term(s) am I not understanding?
I am not refusing to listen. I am refusing to accept the answer. If packages that are not needed are being installed then that is a bug. Period. It is you that do not understand this simple concept.
I understand dependency hell good enough that I understand that it can be improved upon. You just accept it as it is.
Dependency hell is a consequence of poting linux applications, i do not accept it. I’ve already given the solution above: use native applications.
If you insist on using applications that have a dependency hell on linux they will do here too, even moreso because we don’t ship any libraries that a “normal” linux distro might have already included like qt.
I don’t know, you did not elaborate. You only claimed the message to be a “word salad” which indicates to me you did not want or could not understand the terms used within.
All packages that are needed, in this model, are installed. “Working as intended”
This is no misconfiguration or a bug. Dependency hell is a logical consequence that follows from using such a system that does not allow granularity and then having packages from an ecosystem that insists on every little library having to be it’s own project with it’s own community and everything having to be swappable (switch out pulseaudio for sndio for alsa for jack etc. with all of those having compat layers for each other).
Haikuports was intended as a way for only ported applications to ship, it is unfortunate that some of haikus required core libraries and severall native applications are shipped over it now. Otherwise there would be a clear destinction of ported applications that suffer from this and those that are native and do not.
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You failing to understand the meaning is not the same thing as there beeing no meaning. So, clearly you did not understand something in the message.
And I do not care what you think is and is not relevant to the issue at hand, you clearly do not care to learn about it, otherwise you would actually engage in a discussion instead of trying to resort to childish attacks. Even if you use big words to do it : )
No, Saying loudly “I am right” does not make you right, only loud.
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Again you leave it up to me to prove your accusations because you cannot prove them yourself.
Or prove me wrong by telling me what “something” I did not understand.
What part of actually uninstalling one of the resolved dependencies and testing the application to see if it breaks is “Saying loudly “I am right””?
I have proved that x265 is not needed by Kate or by the framework. Uninstall it and nothing required by Kate breaks.
I think this could be seen as a package system bug (regression?), nothing more.
Having said that, it seems someone here has no background in coding, neither in building packages/libraries, and still keeps on asking for things to be done their own way, just because it is better that way. This is simply unpleasant for those working on Haiku.
Well, it is now Christmas and we all should be happier, so take a breath and stop pointing your finger towards others. Just talk, you’ll get greater results.
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Fair enough, but you should at least care about where to complain about it. Which would be the KDE project in this case, right?
Why anyone needs Kate on Haiku anyway is another question. Don´t get me wrong, I´ve used Kate back when I was a KDE user on linux, it´s an OK text editor. But does it have any intrinsic features our native text editors don´t have?
Which is my whole point about this thread; something is clearly wrong!
I guess you are talking about me.
Please quote where I ask for things to be done my way. You won’t be able to since I have not done so. I have asked for help to identify the reason why packages that are not needed are being resolved. I have also refused to accept that it cannot be solved, because I have proved via a simple experiment that it can be.
You are wrong about the background.
I have proved that the problem can at least partly be solved by Haiku. Nobody has proved that it must be solved by KDE.
I don’t use Kate. If you read the thread start I clearly describe how I noticed this behavior that I perceive as wrong.
It is not wrong the way you see it.
When I say ‘bug’ is because if I want to remove a small package a whole library depends upon, then the package system needs to notify me the whole library is going to be removed. This should be the expected behavior IMHO.
You haven´t proven anything. Why would the people who ported the KDE stuff meddle with the dependencies of the packages? That would be a ton of work and would probably break with each new version. The KDE stuff is foreign to Haiku anyway. Accept the dependencies or use native alternatives, if available. Not possible everywhere of course, for example Libreoffice uses the KDE backend currently. Would be great if someone wrote a native Haiku backend for LO. Much more usefull than worrying about dependencies within the KDE framework. Only my 2 cents, of course.
I have read the thread start before I commented and my point still stands. If nobody had a valid reason to use Kate on Haiku you wouldn´t have to worry about it. 
This is not what I am complaining about. So why do you (and others) bring it up?
I am complain about that installing a text editor installs functionality that neither the text editor nor the framework it is dependent on requires. I have used audio- and video codecs as an example, but there are more packages when it comes to Kate. That is a bug. I have proved it to be a bug by removing one of the functionalities without breaking the application or the framework.
Packages that are not needed should not be installed. Can we at least agree that this is a bug? So far nobody has even acknowledged this simple fact. This is what this whole thread is about.
It is not a bug. It is a bad written app, with a framework that includes too much things.
If we bring bad apps from other systems to Haiku, then their bugs , if you want, will come with then. But those bugs ( and others ) need primarily to be fixed by the app mantainer, not us here.
If the dependency problem appear in a native Haiku application, then we can fix it.
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