With “Point / Click / Work”, you forgot : “Get crapwares and viruses”
So forget also about central repository, it’s not fun to browse among 800 open source programs to find a text editor, when you can search among 120000 one on Internet (with 90% craps/shareware/nagware).
Qt is shitty too. It’s better to use only native software. I propose we hire developpers for getting a decent Office Suite, if we spend 2 000 000 dollar for this, shared by the 800 Haiku users, then it will be only $ 2500 per user. Getting a native lightweight interface has no price, if we can avoid the Linux Qt/GTK hell.
(of course, Linux is not without flaws, but it would be a pity to forget about all the great open source applications already available, unless you want to start everything from scratch again, and forget about interoperability for file format)
this seems like flamewar but in the real world all we can be friends and the freedom
to fork is essential to progress
ex:the number one smartphone os is: android and it doesn’t look like anything else and you can code in java but also in python, qt …, opengl and is always good to have a healthy ecosystem
look on what happened when apple put the locks on what you should program in : objective c and c++ only :there was a revolt and now they are switching back to allow other scripting languages
Toolkits do matter for developers but not for users
and yes i do programming in several languages :python , perl ,c++ ,pascal and several toolkits
qt, wxwidgets …and yes i do love learning on haiku internals and howto program the real haiku way but i don’t see any problem using all of them and i use programs done in different toolkits and i don’t care in what is written , i want the tool to do the job and do it well
for example i love some of the qt apps like arora - browser , qmmp , qtwitter , qbittorrent
they are simple and beautiful also i will try to install koffice (I don’t like the kde bloat but there are very good qt apps)
I will port flamerobin http://flamerobin.org and firebird database http://mapopa.blogspot.com/2010/06/firebird-database-porting-progress-on.html on haiku and i see the future of haiku with more
bazaar type of democracy not a tyrannical type like in the Jobs company or in Ubuntu
who knows maybe someone comes with a 3d window manager like compiz/kwin and with better integration than in linux ,we should target also the gamers and other high end users not only people with old hardware
ps: take look at paladin installer i think is the right way ala gdeb way next next next
[quote=thatguy]Well first off, Haiku needs a revenue model “different then the one in place now” that will find a way to leverage enterprise with open source.
that and a office application,accountint application that makes the transistion easy or create new applications that will allow small bussiness’s currently not using Computers to take advantage of them.
I’ll work the sale as soon as a product is ready.[/quote]
Chicken and egg situation.
The decision-makers do not frequent these forums; so if you are serious about finding a revenue model for Haiku, you should post something on the Haiku mailing list and see what kind of responses you get from the powers that be: they are the ones you will have to sell this revenue/business model concept to first.
“Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.”
Not possible. Businesses want either Windows, Linux, MacOS X or BSD. Those are proven and trusted OSes for them. With R1 release, things could change but doubtful.
I actually like Qt on Haiku and happy for it. Want to avoid bringing over X Windows to Haiku. Gtk+ and KDE apps are nice but they rely on X and no need to start adding more and more Linux to Haiku anyways.
Haiku gets $10 to $15K per year in income from donations. You think people would give $2M for an Office Suite for Haiku?
Never going to happen. Best to update GOBE Productive or port over something from Linux (OO or Abiword) and try to make them as native as possible.
[quote=tonestone57]“Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.”
Not possible. Businesses want either Windows, Linux, MacOS X or BSD. Those are proven and trusted OSes for them. With R1 release, things could change but doubtful.
I actually like Qt on Haiku and happy for it. Want to avoid bringing over X Windows to Haiku. Gtk+ and KDE apps are nice but they rely on X and no need to start adding more and more Linux to Haiku anyways.
Haiku gets $10 to $15K per year in income from donations. You think people would give $2M for an Office Suite for Haiku?
Never going to happen. Best to update GOBE Productive or port over something from Linux (OO or Abiword) and try to make them as native as possible.[/quote]
you are talking to a small bussiness owner. Set up a reasonable fee for support "freesoftware" free OS and runs great on old hardware.
When do you want me to start going door to door ?
If Haiku comes out with a office application I am sure I can get users. Gonna have to do it the hardway at first but it can be done.
the only application lacking beyond office is accounting. IE Quickbooks. Most people I know have a love hate relationship with quickbooks. they hate the yearly upsells and the massive performance penaltys with every round of upgrades. They like that fact that it works.
Beyond that most firms would migrate away from quickbooks if they could.
A good invoicing app with a accounting backend “similar in GUI useability” to quickbooks would put haiku up front. Put together a commercial use liscense for say $25-100 yearly and you’ll get users, by the thousands.
Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.[/quote]
If you are so confident, I would say go ahead and start collecting the funds. Once you have the $2M on the table, the Haiku devs will flock to you in the blink of an eye, and you will overnight become everybody’s hero.
I too like Qt on Haiku, because it looks like native applications (no X11 and such). I’m not against X11 though, if it can help bringing quickly sofware I need (such as Inkscape).
About the $2M bounty, I though it was obvious I was joking. Koffice on Qt would be probably good enough for Haiku, and it can read the ODF format.
I agree about Qt. It’s one of the few toolkits that are made to integrate near-perfectly into the OS. In Windows it’s the same thing as in Haiku; it’s usually really hard to see any difference between a native app and a Qt one. This is not the case with GTK+ (NoHaikuForMe will probably try to argue about this, but meh).
Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.[/quote]
If you are so confident, I would say go ahead and start collecting the funds. Once you have the $2M on the table, the Haiku devs will flock to you in the blink of an eye, and you will overnight become everybody’s hero. :)[/quote]
I’d be glad to do that. I need a product to sell first. Its not quiet there yet. I am trying to highlight the reality of the situation there. For Haiku to really become sucessful it needs capitol “we live in a captilistic world” developers need to eat = being paid. I would like to help in this regard. Although as I siad. It would be tough to get people to swtich or consider switching until there is a application they can capitalize on.
BTW I would say given where Hiaku is it might be time for the people at the top of the food chain here to come up with a model to fund haiku, long term. Free Open source with a tech support service charge model might be the best for commercial use “which will bring money in the door”. Providing hiaku offers enterprise something they aren’t getting now.
It not a fialing either " don’t take my comments as being critical of Hiaku" the primary focus to this point has been fund raising,grants etc. The problem is that this is not a functional way forward.Financial resources would empower hiaku to beomce better. Its just not how developers tend to think.
so far the whole project is impressive. the developers have doe a great job. the downside is that since no bussiness people have generally been invovled, hiaku has developed no income streams that are stable enough to really fund it enough to bring it to mass market.
I could help there. But thats gonna depend on what if any level of invovlement management decide to have with small bussiness owener’s corporations etc.
Haiku needs to develope a income stream to fund it. This would massively reduce releases and update times and allow the developers to work full time on it.
How nice would that be ?
Great product. Marketing and Financing need help.I am not the guy to figure out those plans. I do know of several programs with retired executives/small bussiness owners etc that could help here though. First however is that haiku needs to benefit “funding” from this effort.
Sadly the only way to bring this to the mass’s is to have enough fund to hit critical mass.
Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.[/quote]
If you are so confident, I would say go ahead and start collecting the funds. Once you have the $2M on the table, the Haiku devs will flock to you in the blink of an eye, and you will overnight become everybody’s hero. :)[/quote]
Well its not going to be easy to get the funding. The issue is going to fal to the developers in a few ways.
figure out what funding stream they wish to utilitize. IE commcercial liscensing etc.
residual funding to sustain long term development. One time liscense fees are great but they won’t keep funding going for 5-10-15-20years etc.
Without corrputing haiku how to make commercialization work without ruining the non profit status.
some sort of guarentee of support IE is a bussines has a problem they are not going to want to sumbit a ticket, make a call or email would be preffered with a fast response.
I don’t see the haiku team having the capbaility right now.
Getting some penetration into the small bussiness enterprise market would make meeting those goals exceedingly easy.[/quote]
If you are so confident, I would say go ahead and start collecting the funds. Once you have the $2M on the table, the Haiku devs will flock to you in the blink of an eye, and you will overnight become everybody’s hero. :)[/quote]
Well first off, Haiku needs a revenue model “different then the one in place now” that will find a way to leverage enterprise with open source.
that and a office application,accountint application that makes the transistion easy or create new applications that will allow small bussiness’s currently not using Computers to take advantage of them.
I have tried QT in Windows, and on the Mac. Two things occur to me on those platforms. One, QT really does not fit very well. And two, there really is not much reason to use QT on those platforms for they have ample native software to do everything you wish to do in QT.
On Haiku, I think reason one remains valid, it just does not fit that nicely. Reason two is clearly different with Haiku, because you can do more with QT on Haiku than you can without it. But I think that is only valid becasue Haiku is still finding its voice. Once Haiu finds it voice QT will be as marginal on Haiku as it is on Windows and Mac.
I would further like to say that I think a problem with using QT, is that it just prolongs the time it will take Haiku to finds it voice with its own symphony of applications. Personally as a user I can not tell the difference between Windows and Linux. Both seem to built on giant monolithic applications. In both OSes a user does not create their own workflow by stringing together nicely intergrated components, but gets things done by falling into the tunnel of some oversized applications. Haiku has always just seemed to me to be the antithesis of Linux and Windows.
Btw I don’t know why I said about Qt it “looked like native applications.”. Of course Qt is creating “native applications” for Haiku, Windows, Linux. It’s not like a virtual machine (java) or using a different graphical server (X11). A Qt port is using the native interface of Haiku, it’s just avoiding the duplication of code by calling the appropriate equivalent on Haiku. There is no valid reason to refrain using it. Btw Qt applications on Haiku are faster than on Linux (faster loadtime for example).
[quote=citi324][quote=thatguy]Well first off, Haiku needs a revenue model “different then the one in place now” that will find a way to leverage enterprise with open source.
that and a office application,accountint application that makes the transistion easy or create new applications that will allow small bussiness’s currently not using Computers to take advantage of them.
I’ll work the sale as soon as a product is ready.[/quote]
Chicken and egg situation.
The decision-makers do not frequent these forums; so if you are serious about finding a revenue model for Haiku, you should post something on the Haiku mailing list and see what kind of responses you get from the powers that be: they are the ones you will have to sell this revenue/business model concept to first.
Good luck![/quote]
It’s not that I think Haiku should become a closed source for profit enterprise. I would like to see 3 things happen.
1.coders being paid a liveable wag and given the ability to work on something they are passionate about. a great Operating system.
expanded application selection by funding for developers
revenue stream for application developers. If a enterprise is making money using hiaku software there is no reason the developers should not receive some form of compensation from that.
I’d like to see a application market place where Developers can sell their apps.
I don’t know if we should call it completely native. The native GUI toolkit is the one provided by Haiku, and I’m sure it’s possible to notice a difference if you look hard enough. If you want a cross-platform toolkit however, Qt is definitely the best you get for that purpose, and it integrates so well so that there isn’t much reason to complain about it.
Yes there are several valid reasons to refrain from using it. It’s not native. Why ? because it has portability cruft so it may run on all OSes ever created. It’s full of abstraction layer code to abstract the differences between OSes. And in order to make things portable, it only allows the lowest common denominator of functionality between the various OSes it supports. Hardly ideal unless your goal is to save some time when writing an app you want to sell for several OSes at once. But that’s a developer-centric view. And Haiku != Linux. The goal of BeOS was to get rid of all compatibility cruft to keep things simple and nice. So use the App kit.
