haiku has that already though
Just to pitch in my own $0.02: by no means. I see Haiku as the last remaining OS that isnât pretentious. It just boots and stands back, leaving the user to decide what to do and where to go. I can see that this isnât some UX designerâs personal art project, instead the user interface clearly shows the function of everything on the system. In this way, I find that Haiku has found a perfect balance. Its icons neither convey their message using enough visual effects to make my CPU catch fire nor in a bland caricature so flat that it makes my eyes bleed.
Also as an aside: isometric icons are awesome no matter what. They form a perfect ground between 3d and 2d that is intuitive and visually appealing.
That is something I didnât find, but would certainly make life easier, though I would prefer it at the top of the screen.[/quote]
you can drag the deskbar and place it in any corner or along any edge[/quote]
Seems like we are talking about diferent things, I mean the menu thing in the top right of a standard Haiku screen, itâs ugly.
(This is where a nice toolbar/panel like Fluxbox has is needed.)
That is something I didnât find, but would certainly make life easier, though I would prefer it at the top of the screen.[/quote]
you can drag the deskbar and place it in any corner or along any edge[/quote]
Seems like we are talking about diferent things, I mean the menu thing in the top right of a standard Haiku screen, itâs ugly.
(This is where a nice toolbar/panel like Fluxbox has is needed.)[/quote]
http://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/deskbar.html
(If you are not talking about this, then I have no clue what you are on about)
I am confused. What aside from transparency does FluxBox add that DeskBar does not do?
I did a quick Google search, so it would be easy to miss something but the screen shots did not show me anything else that was better than how I use DeskBar.
Earl Colby Pottinger
To me that sounds like eye-candy that does not help in my use of the UI in anyway.
In what functional way does any of that improve the the interface?
Earl Colby Pottinger
Just curious, whatever happened to the Decor function. I like the idea of being able to change the window tab and such. I have Dano installed on an old laptop with several decors available. This option keeps the general function and feel of the desktop similar, but gives a small amount of customization that some might want. I do see there is an option to change it under Appearance/Look and feel. But if I recall correctly, the old decors will not work with Haiku now.
Just a couple of thoughts. I like the leaf/feather button - but maybe put it on a colored background (yellow - like the titlebars??) Maybe make it stand out more?
Also I really like Danoâs radio and check box look. The colors are fantastic! And they are slightly oversized, which gives a nice natural look. For instance, when I check a box or tick an option on paper, the ink usually travels slightly outside the box itself. I should also mention they are animated as well, but not so much that your processor would ever know.
Letâs face it, weâre all going to have different opinions, and thatâs perfect! But having the option to change the look of a window bar is small, and it appears to have already been implemented. If new decors are available, this might be an easy way to satisfy many people at once. For myself, a long time BeOS user (since 2000) and proud Haiku user, I am used to the simplicity and find it comforting. I would however see a little edgyness applied to it -like the Dano look.
I will also say Iâm currently using Haiku to post this message 
Thank you developers!!
The capability still exists (to have different decorators) however⌠none of the other decorators have been ported/updated to the new stack and tile system⌠so that is why there arenât any more than the default one.
You can change colors and such thoughâŚ
That is something I didnât find, but would certainly make life easier, though I would prefer it at the top of the screen.[/quote]
you can drag the deskbar and place it in any corner or along any edge[/quote]
Seems like we are talking about diferent things, I mean the menu thing in the top right of a standard Haiku screen, itâs ugly.
(This is where a nice toolbar/panel like Fluxbox has is needed.)[/quote]
http://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/deskbar.html
(If you are not talking about this, then I have no clue what you are on about)[/quote]
also, if you right-click anywhere on the desktop, you get a dropdown menu pretty much the same as fluxbox and enlightenment, with access to the full filesystem and all apps.
[quote=Haiku_Programmer]In what functional way does any of that improve the the interface?
Earl Colby Pottinger[/quote]
It does. It really does. A drop-shadow properly designed draws the eye and tells you which window is active before you have time to think about it. It only saves a tenth of a second, but multiply it by a thousand time per day. Animations, IF properly designed, tell you what is happening inside your computer on a visceral level.
The trick here is in that phase âif properly designedâ. Consider the Apple iPhone. Why is that thing still selling by the shipload when there are more powerful, more functional Android phones available? Because the iphone was designed both as hardware and software. Apple used every trick known to neuropsychology to make the thing work as seamlessly as possible. Steve Jobs created the original Macintosh because he once took a calligraphy course at Stanford. He wanted to be able to reproduce that kind of beauty electronically.They will agonise for months over whether to make that drop shadow 9 or 10 pixels thick.
By comparison, the skins that Samsung, HTC etc hastily throw over Android are clunky and ugly. If you want to see Android really shine you need to buy one labelled Nexus, with a bare Android installation. Of course Android phones have fans too. Some people care more for price, personalisation and raw performance than for design, and thatâs OK.
So, if you are going to redesign the Haiku UI, you will need a designer. Not a programmer, a designer: these skill sets rarely overlap. Just throwing random decorations and animations onto the UI will result in an unusable mess, guaranteed. Yes, that means relinquishing control to a Fine Arts graduate. The designer designs, and you are just the grunt in engineering who implements. 
I donât know who designed the original BeOS UI, but the stark simplicity of it remains attractive to me in Haiku today. And S&T was implemented the right way. If you like it, use it. If you donât, just ignore it - youâll never know it was there.
[quote=Michel][quote=Haiku_Programmer]
So, if you are going to redesign the Haiku UI, you will need a designer. Not a programmer, a designer: these skill sets rarely overlap. Just throwing random decorations and animations onto the UI will result in an unusable mess, guaranteed. Yes, that means relinquishing control to a Fine Arts graduate. The designer designs, and you are just the grunt in engineering who implements.
I donât know who designed the original BeOS UI, but the stark simplicity of it remains attractive to me in Haiku today. And S&T was implemented the right way. If you like it, use it. If you donât, just ignore it - youâll never know it was there.[/quote]
I agree. The programmers have done an excellent job with Haiku, but it might take someone with a different skill set to do the artistic portion - or someone with time devoted to this topic. What about the creator of Wonderbrush?
I also agree that Stack and Tile is an excellent addition to the original GUI interface. In my humble opinion - letâs keep it simple; just dress it up a little bit. But, hey, Iâm just a user and I greatly appreciate the work that has been done.
ah, since you put it that way, iâm all for it. brief animations, such as to show where minimized windows have âgoneâ to or even the transition between workspaces can be quick enough not to get in anyoneâs way, informative enough to explain the gui better and more reliably than words would and can be turned off. even win2k did all that (minus workspace transitions, since it didnât have workspaces). these are good ideas. just donât take away my flat contrasty colors and sharp rectangles plz, i need those
[quote=Michel][quote=Haiku_Programmer]In what functional way does any of that improve the the interface?
Earl Colby Pottinger[/quote]
It does. It really does. A drop-shadow properly designed draws the eye and tells you which window is active before you have time to think about it. It only saves a tenth of a second, but multiply it by a thousand time per day. Animations, IF properly designed, tell you what is happening inside your computer on a visceral level.
The trick here is in that phase âif properly designedâ.[/quote]
While I agree with your statement âif properly designedâ should be applied to any changes to the Haiku UI, I donât think drop-shadows is one of those things needed for Haiku-OS.
On my Amiga 1000, the fact so many programs would insist on opening on the main desktop screen (which was over-scanned to 702 by 440) instead to a separate drag-down screen resulted in a very cluttered desktop.
Drop-shadows were very useful on that smaller screen. In Haiku-OS where I can open any program on any virtual screen, the desktops do not get so cluttered that shadows are needed.
One point about drop-shadows on the Amiga, the user could control how much the shadows were offsetted or could turn them off by setting the offset to zero. I am all for add-ons to the Haiku UI that have an easy way to turn themselves off so they donât get in the way if I am not using them.
Earl Colby Pottinger
[quote=Haiku_Programmer]
While I agree with your statement âif properly designedâ should be applied to any changes to the Haiku UI, I donât think drop-shadows is one of those things needed for Haiku-OS.[/quote]
Agreed, actually. I was just using that as an example.
Also, I think that this should be done on an âOn or Offâ basis. You either use the eye candy the way God and the Haiku dev team gave it to you, or you turn it off, with Off being the default. Rather that than letting users tinker endlessly and finding creative new ways to screw up their systems. That is more the Haiku Wayâ˘, I think.
I would suggest thinking about (Post R1) the idea of app_server hosting HTML5 and JS to BWindow frames, drawing the UI components using the Layout Manager onto a HTML5 canvas and then apps get written as a daemon which handles the backend logic (C++?) and the UI which talks to it via the app_server.
This might be a dead idea, but so many things are becoming HTML5-based UI-wise, and on Windows (for example) many developers are focusing on HTML5 for their UIs instead of WPF.
For Haiku to be the first OS with HTML5 based UI would certainly be interesting.
The native widgets donât have to look different - they render to canvas instead.
There will be a million holes in this idea - itâs just food for thought.
The idea of using web tech in Haiku itself, beyond the browser, could be taken a lot further if someone was willing to run with it.
If Haiku was remade to be consumable as a website, both locally and remotely, if redesigned as a kind of middleware for running Haiku web applications (called haikus?) this could:
- free it from the present consensus against theming
- free it from the constraints of its C++ API
- free it from limitations of the app_server (drawing primitives?)
- free it from the conventions of its desktop environment (Tracker, Deskbar, Twitcher, etc)
- mitigate the lack of drivers, if consumed from another computer
- allow accessing one's Haiku environment from one's phone
- eventually free Haiku from dependencies on its own kernel and filesystem
- make multiuser more interesting (to experiment with)
- sidestep C++ API integration for script langauges, offering web-based GUI
- allow apps to mix different programming languages
- allow apps to offer services, data to each other
All in all, this would help break Haiku out of its current pigeon hole. It might not be Haiku anymore, but it would be more interesting, to me at least. BeOS fans learned to love the post-BeBox BeOS. "It's dark in the box." Perhaps Haiku fans can learn to love a post-Haiku Haiku, if its spirit, core values, sensibilities, and ease of use remain.
To be clear, for a transitional period of time (years, most likely), the present Haiku would be the premier host platform for its web personality. Haiku weblets would be shown as regular windows when run locally. Remote web consumers would only see the haiku weblets, and weblet windows would be managed by a pluggable window manager, similar to X in concept, tailored to a web user experience when used remotely.
What you are talking about, is a complete different project. You changed everything from haiku⌠starting at the kernel up to the ui - This would also mean you have to rewrite not only the whole os but also every programm ⌠for the "new haiku"
What you suggest is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system
I used eyeOS for example http://www.eyeos.com/.
But this has NOTING to do with haiku and there is no real reason to move the project in this direction (there other succsessors)
Its like telling a cow to become a tree or something like this 
There is already a kind of remote desktop
http://haiku-os.org/node/6007
Some points you mentioned like scipting, mixing different programming languages are already possibleâŚ
If you want to start a project like that, go ahead. Just donât call it Haiku. This new project would not even resemble Haiku.
kirilla: Interesting, although I sort of just meant rendering the apps as âwebletsâ with maybe even a JS version of the UI kit which draws to canvas/webkit for the windows.
Everything else the same.
I guess in R2 and beyond the web-app enabled Haiku will do great. In terms of look & feel, I will always stand by the Classic UI for desktops, although some kind of additional / alternative html5/js Neo shell wouldnât hurt either if itâs developed by a dedicated team of excellent coders and usability experts. On somewhat modern machines OpenGL-accelerated Desktop is good idea too. Look at OS X for example, not hell of a lot visual effects, but very smooth and snappy. I could only imagine lighting fast Haiku taking advandage of all the modern hardware.