Haiku-Linux relation FAQ answer

1

I recently signed up for the haiku-os.org website, the mailing list and the forums. I hope to become a Haiku developer someday. I have rather good allround skills but i will not explain them here.

I was more curious about the Haiku-Linux relation answer in the public FAQ at http://haiku-os.org/faqs.

It states that Linux is intended for experts and that it is more focused on the server-side instead of usability.

Dont get me wrong here. I am a commited Linux and FOSS user/developer but i do wish for a better explanation relating to that query.

Clarifications:
Linux itself is a kernel. It can be used for anything an operating-system is intended.
Linux-based distributions are the ones in charge of the usability and relating matters.

I can supply a rudimentary answer to how/why Haiku will/is better then Linux for the end-user:
Linux-based distributions does not have a common well-defined user-interface. (GNOME, KDE, Xfce, fluxbox, GNUstep, X11, …)
Many distributions is forked leading to many different distributions with slight differences. Leading to, not always, vendor lock-in even for Linux users.
In other terms, since Linux-based distributions did not define a common operating-system (libs, apps, etc) in the initial up-spring in the form of a standard (which currently exist in the form of the Linux Standard Base (LSB)) then it led to alot of different userland implementations and requires more from the end-user since distributions does not focus their development into a common userland/operating-system implementation. Package managers for instance: portage, deb, rpm, source, tgz and so on.

Linux exists for a cause. It exists to give the end-users a choice. Problem is that there is too many choices in the form of distributions. This can be interpreted as good or bad, i myself find it good but that’s since i am more of a “geek”.

Haiku on the other hand is aimed at creating an open-source unified operating-system based on a previous well-defined UI and operating-system which gives it a common cause and a well-prepared roadmap and goals.

Anyway… i hope i did not dig too much into this subject. I just found the Q&A’s relating to Linux rather confusing.

I hope to be able to contribute to this project as much as i can. Thanks for a great project with great goals. :slight_smile:

The more open source operating systems the merrier.

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kimaz wrote:
Anyway... i hope i did not dig too much into this subject. I just found the Q&A's relating to Linux rather confusing.

Yes, consider that the majority of that FAQ is several years old now…

I think your points are probably valid - and if he finds the time, I suspect Koki will put some thought into the FAQ and its assertions :slight_smile:

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I think that FAQ was talking about Linux in general. “Linux” means a lot of different things depending on who you ask, but the world-at-large sees it as an entire operating system geared toward those technically-inclined, whereas Haiku is geared toward the average person.

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j_freeman wrote:
I think that FAQ was talking about Linux in general. "Linux" means a lot of different things depending on who you ask, but the world-at-large sees it as an entire operating system geared toward those technically-inclined, whereas Haiku is geared toward the average person.

I agree. Though the answer(s) could be more explanatory. For instance, Linux itself is a kernel while Haiku is a complete operating system.

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kimaz wrote:
I recently signed up for the haiku-os.org website, the mailing list and the forums. I hope to become a Haiku developer someday. I have rather good allround skills but i will not explain them here.

We need more developers. Please join us. :slight_smile:

kimaz wrote:
Clarifications: Linux itself is a kernel. It can be used for anything an operating-system is intended. Linux-based distributions are the ones in charge of the usability and relating matters.

IMHO, this is a very bad excuse (and it’s frequently used by Linux enthusiasts). For most people Linux is the distribution (the UI, actually) and if it doesn’t work they blame Linux as a whole.

But even if you just look at the Linux kernel you will find that it’s not very well suited for a desktop OS (IMHO). The user probably will only notice the kernel indirectly through plug-n-play and hardware detection. Linux makes this very complicated (AFAIK, it still uses scripts for pnp!) and incredibly slow (it takes ages to boot…).

kimaz wrote:
Linux exists for a cause. It exists to give the end-users a choice. Problem is that there is too many choices in the form of distributions. This can be interpreted as good or bad, i myself find it good but that's since i am more of a "geek".

You might find “The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less” by Barry Schwartz interesting. This book has become pretty popular (hey, even Joel quotes it in his last blog post…).
There is also a presentation at Google Tech Talk (if you don’t want to buy/read the book :wink: ):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6127548813950043200&q=google+engedu

The point is this: Too much choice makes people unhappy (or even depressed). What this “too much” means depends on your priorities and goals. The Linux community often justifies its practice with “choice is good!”, but for people who don’t want to mess with their computer (that’s the great majority of home and business users) this argument is totally wrong. Lots of computer-related choice is good for geeks, but with this level of choice in other areas of your life I’d bet that most geeks probably feel the same as normal people with computers (buy a car, bike, clothes; repair your bike, car, etc.).

kimaz wrote:
Anyway... i hope i did not dig too much into this subject. I just found the Q&A's relating to Linux rather confusing.

I hope to be able to contribute to this project as much as i can. Thanks for a great project with great goals. :slight_smile:

The more open source operating systems the merrier.

While I don’t agree with the last statement (again, too much choice :wink: ) I agree with most of what you said. I’ve reworked the FAQ entry. Do you think that it sounds better, now? Anything else that one could complain about?

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the problem is not about choice. i mean, one could do whatever they want to with haiku. The difference is we won’t need to. And we all work together from the beginning. We have to learn to listen

Since linux is just a kernel, there was a big void. Everyone else had to come along with their own solution for all the other things. There’s always the latest linux to be “easy to use”. Mandrake, lindows…now ubuntu/kubuntu is the latest…for now.

The big guys: redhat and novell have pretty much given up on the idea of linux on the desktop. So that guarantees fragmentation in the user experience because someone else will always try to be the desktop linux which will be different than ‘real’ linux

I checked out the latest VLC. there are links to 12 kinds of linux downloads!
This was also pretty ridiculous
http://christopher.aillon.org/blog/dev/mozilla/20061204-linux-alliance.html

Most developers aren’t going to be as nice to linux as mozilla