Haiku in media


#104

Indeed, I was not suggesting a 1:1 clone of their UI of course. I agree their search system is way too weak (surprising, for something that was developped by Google, who supposedly masters searching in all its forms?).

I was just referring to the way they handle the two use cases: start with something showing featured packages, suggestions, recent updates, etc (to make you discover new apps), yet allow you to search for something and switch to a different mode (to find a specific app you are looking for). And they have a third way of exploring the data, as categories, which we currently implement as a search filter. I would keep our approach on this (being able to search in a category can be useful).


#105

This video explains Haiku-Beta1 for newbies, at this moment 89K people watched it.
It’s third video most popular related to “Haiku-os”, also the video shows how to create an Usb installer and download software with HaikuDepot:


#106

Finally golem also reported about haiku beta :slight_smile: (only german)


#107

Please no. Keep it simple. That’s one of the things Haiku does better than anyone else. Having to explain itself on a splash screen brings me nightmares of Windows 3 era installs. OMFG NO!


#108

Druaga1 did a video on Haiku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHZboNN12U


#109

I wanted to post it right now. :slight_smile:


#110

A new review from Distrowatch (Haiku Beta1):
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20181126#haiku
And by the way, Haiku is 72 in Distrowatch’s ranking


#111

Too bad the review was done with a misconfigured VirtualBox networking…

I wonder why not more reviewers that have such fundamental problems come to the forums, IRC, ML to ask what might be wrong. Of course they should write in their article that they had trouble with X, Y, Z , but that they could eventually solve them doing A, B, C.
Oh, right, now you all respond that journalism is dead… :slight_smile:


#112

Well, they are not actually interested in making things work, just in reporting what they see.

We should have more Big Red Warnings about these common pitfalls. I would suggest in the Installer welcome text, but no one reads that…

Or, maybe we should fix the bugs? They are an annoyance to our users, and these reviews are in the eye of the casual user trying out Haiku for the first time without knowing anything about it.


#113

^ This ^ . Bugs like those should be fixed natively, not by manual tips & tricks. Unless it involves some person/reviewer finding a weird corner case while doing a review, that’s inevitable.

From the review:

The virtual machine used a lot of my host’s CPU. Even when Haiku was idle, VirtualBox was using 25% of my host’s CPU resources. Running a simple application such as the resource monitor in Haiku raised that usage to 35%.

:thinking: this happened to me in Libvirt, and thought it was only me or my system, but doesnt seem to happen in VmWare @ Windows 10. Some info about why this happens would be good to know.


#114

Can you create a bugreport if this is unexpected? We can investigate then.


#115

Sure, i reinstalled a new distro (ubuntu based, now Arch based), so i will check in the new one after reinstalling libvirt, and create the ticket if I can reproduce de behavior.


#116

I guess my demands on a “review” are different.

That’s the main problem. I had a look at our FAQ just now (and did a few minor improvements), it does include the VirtualBox networking issue.

Of course. We should just fix everything and release R1. Now that was easy. :smile:


#117

Is the quick tour going to be integrated?

I think it would help avoid confusion and comments such as “There were some other aspects that I wasn’t thrilled about - the title bar being a tab at the top of windows looks weird and inefficient to me, but that is a matter of taste.”

In this case the reviewer has got the idea that the window title bars are inefficient, which is the exact opposite of their function when used with stacking. If the quick start guide appeared after booting in an unmaximised single pane browser window (is that possible?) with a “show at launch” tick box it would help to solve misunderstandings like these, I’d have thought.


#118

The best thing, apart from getting the bugs fixed :wink: would be to have Haiku as a choice in the Virtualbox menu when creating a new VM. Maybe under the “other” category. Then the hardware configuration, especially networking, would be correct by default.

Of course, I wonder how realistic that is…with Virtualbox being owned by Oracle :wink:


#119

Not the default paradigm of having windows maximized to full width / height as other desktops/Os, nor using the whole “title-bar” for the… title. Most newcomers (myself included) may not use stacking nor keybindings to do it.
Not that it is bad or wrong, it’s just a thing that isnt commonly used and causes some kind of cultural-shock (ui wise).


#120

For me it raises the question of “affordance”: is it possible to grasp our user interface intuitively, without reading docs? These reviews are a valuable input showing where we failed at that. A Quick Tour is a simple solution, but kind of admitting our failure at this. It would be great to consider improving the discoverability of features, so that a QuickTour isn’t even needed. It may not always be possible or acceptable, however ; but think about things like tooltips, or how inkscape always shows in its status bar what will happen if you click where the mouse is, plus available modifiers.


#121

I see that the review on http://www.distrowatch.org/weekly.php?issue=20181126#haiku is discussed here. :slight_smile:

I would not worry too much about things such as “got the idea that the window title bars are inefficient”. To me that is just a tiny detail IF it were true in the first place (which I don’t think it is but again, I think this is such a minor thing either way).

The by far much bigger issue is hardware support. This is an area where hopefully HaikuOS can improve a lot in the coming months, because if haiku does not work on the real hardware then it can not be called a “real” OS.

These reviews are a valuable input showing where we failed at that

That depends. I would not call a “window title bars are inefficient” a real failure, but hardware being not supported, while, say, it works under linux, is a problem. Since this may also require more information for Haiku, I suggest adding some simple means for the end users to give you guys feedback in a convenient way, ideally automatic. For example, “click this button to send a log to a remote page for hardware information and failure with that”. Of course people could enter information manually via their web browser but many are lazy (I know I am). The more information the easier it should be to support hardware, even more so if it already is known to work on linux (which may be easier to test for folks; there are actually quite some linux users out there in the wild; of course it is still only a small % share but it’s a very noticable number; quite a few windows users are actually dual-users of linux as well).

I think hardware support is more important than a perfect quick tour - if my hardware is not supported then the quick tour is not going to help me since I could not use HaikuOS to begin with. While I understand that you want to make a great first impression for casual users, do not forget the more advanced users.


#122

Hardware support needs the person to report a ticket, provide syslogs, etc.Since most of the failures are usually “no display” or “no network”, it is hard to automate any kind of bug reporting process. And we will need manual intervention from the user to test potential fixes or provide further data anyways. So on this side, we can only blame the users for not reporting bugs, and ourselves for not taking time to investigate and solve the problems.

On the UX side, however, it is really something we can get thinking about and consider changes. Ths problem is not the “inneficient” part (I can understand this, it makes the titlebar harder to reach, so more complicated to move the window). The thing is, this is a known problem and there is already a solution implemented (with the keyboard shortcuts to move or resize windows). However, this shortcut uses the window key, which is unusual and completely undiscoverable. I don’t see a way to make this more visible, however, so a Quick Tour entry may be the only way out (this is already mentionned in the user guide, but apparently people don’t read it all, and only refer to it when they get stuck with something).


#123

While I agree that limited hardware support is a problem, I doubt it’ll be solved in the coming months. How and why in the coming months when it wasn’t in the past months?
Anyway, Haiku is a “real” OS, because it does run on real hardware. Just not on every hardware… :slight_smile:

The difference in effort to improve hardware support and to improve the QuickTour are probably a few hundred magnitudes… Plus the skill sets needed for tackling each are very different.

I’d say, mostly not even when stuck with something.
Ironically the distrowatch review mentions the nice documentation, so that is at last something on the plus side. :slight_smile: