Haiku has No Future | Haiku Project

Are you sure about that? Many folks here are also Linux users, yet have made many points in favour of Haiku.

Yeah I think this is covered elsewhere, pretty sure I ready @PulkoMandy put it pretty succinctly in the last week or so, but essentially:

Although haiku does not benchmark as fast as Linux, the GUI is more responsive, the system is much more cohesive, and it is much nicer to code for. The whole thing is designed by one team and all the different application level APIs are designed to fit together. I’d argue the API and user experience are better than on any other OS. Configuration, window management, file management, package management, you name it, they’ve really thought it through.

In contrast windows has a million ways to do anything in the GUI, the GUI is unresponsive, and it has about 20 different APIs in 10 different languages. Installing applications and managing security is so, so painful. To me it just feels like a mess.

Linux, well I love Linux and use it everyday for everything, and what is great is that there’s always a way to do whatever it is that you can think of, and there’s nothing it can’t do. But a jack of all trades is a master of none, and it’s a whole bunch of different parts put together to make something that just about works well enough. I’m a veteran Linux user and I still have problems like the desktop not unlocking properly, sleep not working, and all kinds of other things, and I will probably find a way to fix those problems by changing packages or using an obscure workaround, and I’ve gotten really good at that, but really that’s the story of Linux all over.

Mac OS, I think it locks you down too much, they really want you to buy in to their systems and keep on buying in. Not just for buying hardware but also using icloud, itunes, using only apple approved applications, and doing everything their way or the highway. And man, why do apple users try to force everyone else to be apple users? It’s like a religion! And personally I find the usability worse than Linux (although to be fair you don’t have to hack it just to get it to work normally).

Just my thoughts. We’ve gotta keep believing in haiku because if our only realistic choices are basically linux/bsd, windows and mac os then the future is really really bleak.


Just believing in does not do the trick, gotta have some coders to fix bugs and develop features. As I see it, it’s doomed to be a hobbyist OS with no serious approach to the masses with the current status quo.

Well that is a great example of the opposite attitude to what I was talking about :rofl:

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You’re right, bitigchi. There has to be a change to the status quo in order for Haiku to achieve its potential.

So let’s make that change. The biggest single thing that needs to happen is for Haiku to attract more developers to do what is needed to get the OS to the stage where it is a credible desktop alternative.

I think there are plenty of people who are suspicious of the Mac/Windows giants, and who don’t have the time or the inclination to become competent Linux users. And if you’re not a competent Linux user, then using Linux is not a lot of fun. So there is a potential Haiku user base, and a potential Haiku developer pool (over and above our small but excellent existing developer team). We just need to reach them.

We need to spread the word. And we need Haiku Inc to become more involved. I am one of those who donate money, but nobody tells me how it is being used. Or what the plans are.

This is a project that is crying out for leadership and for clearly defined goals.

I think the most relevant point you made was that Windows has a plethora of ways to do any given thing, including different APIs. That has some significant downsides when it comes to trying to ensure a unified, intuitive user experience let alone describing how to do something. Installing applications really isn’t that bad, at least for an individual user. It’s definitely more user friendly than Linux in a lot of ways. Security is of course a different matter entirely… The GUI is largely fine when haven’t overloaded the system and aren’t in the middle of the current application crashing.

As for Linux, there’s a reason that distributions exist… Aside from the kernel, a particular distribution or any other project with real project management it is what the user makes of it. You can’t just use any old combination of software and expect to not see interaction problems. It’s probably also hard to ensure nothing will go wrong when the user can literally install/uninstall anything even major parts of the OS and will happily, and blindly, update anytime it says there’s an update…

Apple/MacOS have a lot going for them/it, but user freedom isn’t one of their major concerns…

I think you’d better get involved personally if you’re setting your hopes on Haiku.

I barely use windows any more, but it seems really archaic to me that I have to go and download each program and run its own installer and go through a bunch of steps inside the installer, like choosing where the files should go. Then maybe if there are dependencies that were missed you have to go and find and install those, and again go through the dumb steps. In linux or haiku it’s one command, or even if you do have to download a package manually it’s again one command to install (or in haiku just copying the file to a package directory).

Yes but I am talking about using a distribution, my point is, with so many different components, something will go wrong. Actually if you choose all the parts yourself and put them together for a specific set of hardware generally you end up with something that is less likely to go wrong. This is the case when developing distributions of Linux for use in embedded settings for example.

I have done some things like porting a programming language, a bunch of libraries, and wrote the initial version of the haiku synergy application, all are in haiku ports. All were some time ago, and I wish I could contribute more, but I have a very busy work life, two young children and an old house that needs a lot of work, and this doesn’t leave much time for hacking as a hobby. But thanks for the suggestion lol!

This post is getting a bit long without actually contributing anything concrete to the Haiku ecosystem, it’s more a group ‘counselling’ session. My spirits are kept high for a number of reasons:

  • every day the availability of apps increases. We’ve got Krita, VLC, LibreOffice, etc
  • the modern hardware variety is shrinking every year. A decade ago there were many more vendors/devices, now it’s shrinking to a smaller number so much easier to encounter something that works. Eg. I built a new box (Ryzen3700, Navi5600, nvme) and everything just worked (sound, network, VESA, EFI).
  • the polish/stability/quality of Haiku improves every day. It’s good enough to allow Haiku to be my primary system.
  • Web is the biggest Haiku problem at this point in time, but each Web+ update brings us closer to a fully usable system. We’ll get there in time.

And the big one:

  • with corporate commercial OS updates and focus on lucrative big government/school contracts, and seeing the censorship on Youtube/Twitter/Facebook etc, it doesn’t take much imagination to see that big OS vendors will have to introduce ‘censorship’ controls in their OS’s (in order to get the government contracts). I can see the day (in less than a decade) when you will be restricted with the content you can produce with these OS’s (you’ll only be able to save to the cloud). And this introduced complexity will significantly cripple big applications/OS’s and drive a lot more people to alternative open source OS’s. And Haiku is geared more towards responsive desktop applications than an OS designed to serve files in a server room.

You can read the financial reports, which tell you: https://www.haiku-inc.org/documents/

TL;DR: Servers, other recurring expenses, etc.; the rest is just going into savings (and there are a lot of savings right now.)

The reports tell me that it is not being used (except for some running expenses).
The last report says that the Bitcoin (BTC) donations still hadn’t been converted to real money (though it’s possible they have been since). In 2017 they were worth over $50,000 at one point. In 2018, Bitcoin’s value had plummeted, and the value went down to $12,000 (and that’s after receiving more donations in Bitcoin). The value of the 2017 holding was only $8,700.
They have risen again recently, but nobody knows what the future holds. I believe the Inc should get off its backside, cash in the Bitcoin, and start to come up with a plan for the future. Since 2016 they have only held one meeting!

Everyone concerned should use the Haiku, Inc. mailing list to voice their concerns. Unfortunately forum rants generally don’t have any effect.

It’s not a rant. It’s a statement of fact, other than one sentence in which I say that the Inc needs to actually do something, and that’s not a rant either. If you want to disagree with what I have said, feel free, but don’t try to shut me down.

Furthermore, I believe this IS the right place to voice a valid concern over the Inc’s mismanagement of donations and general lack of action.

I think my wording sounded a bit off; I didn’t mean to shut you down, just providing the direct channel of contact.

OK, no problem.

BTW, I tried to log into the mailing list you linked to, but although I am apparently registered, I can’t find any discussions.

There is definitely activity on that list. Despite not meeting “officially” only once since 2016, the Inc. has definitely met via mailing lists and made changes to budgets (we obviously changed hosting providers more than once since then), approved expenses (we held a few meetups that the Inc. covered costs for), and other such things.

The main problem right now is that $100k is a lot of money for a project, but not quite enough to actually hire someone for more than a year or two; and the developers who would be able to work for Haiku for a reasonable amount would prefer to have at least potential longevity to an employment contract…

Rants (on the forum or the mailing list) are counter productive:

  • You waste time writing them
  • People waste time reading them and writing replies
  • In the end everyone leaves frustrated and nothing gets done.

If you want to help with improving the situation and have something constructive to say, please do that. But otherwise, there is so much negativity and it’s just demotivating everyone.

The people running Haiku inc are doingtheir best. They did not particularly want to join, they had to do it because no one else would. They try to balance it with other Haiku and non-Haiku activities (as we all do). And if most of the time is spent reading forum and mailing list rants about how Haiku is getting nowhere, well, that’s very demotivating or depressing and they will do something else.

Things are moving (slowly, because in Haiku you must have a lot of patience), and some people are in the process of applying to join the inc and replace inactive members. It will help with that particular aspect, and hopefully then we can move on to the “how do we spent the money” aspect.

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That’s good to hear. Thank you for your response.

However, as a limited liability corporation the Inc has a duty to hold an annual general meeting once a year, and there is no evidence that that has happened. It also has a duty to produce accounts, and that hasn’t happened.

I am very happy to help with producing accounts, as I have already mentioned previously. Ryan has made a good start, but more needs to be done.

The reason why this is important is that Haiku would benefit enormously from having more money. But Haiku can’t very well go out and ask for donations if it doesn’t say what it plans to use the money for; and if it doesn’t produce accounts; and if it doesn’t hold proper, minuted, meetings; and if it doesn’t bank Bitcoin. In other words, if it’s not accountable

In 2016, there was talk of devising a new structure. Has anything happened, do you know?

These are important matters that need to be addressed, not dismissed as a rant and swept under the carpet.

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I agree with @Sebrof.

I do not see it as a rant either, or beeing overly negative.

Albeit as a lawyer and not an accountant, I share the view that more legal/accounting clarity would help the Inc and the project in the long run by alleviating any misgivings about Haiku’s long term future and its ability to wisely use the money it has been donated.

I’m quite new in the community, having rediscovered the project when R1/Beta was released and found it quite usable for a layperson, compared to what it was 10 years ago when I first tried it.

Being a lawyer (I work in the legal department of a governement entity), I dont’ have any programming skill and cannot contribute meaningfully on the technical side of things, but I could help out on the legal/organisational side.

I’m gonna try and subscribe to the list and see what’s cooking there :wink:


I just subscribed to the list and was able to access the archived discussions without issues.

Thanks for your support.

One thing I didn’t mention earlier, but will now, is that a corporation that doesn’t keep up to date with its filing and other responsibilities can be struck off - and then the assets are in danger of being grabbed by the state. So, even if it sounds boring, attention to administrative matters is not just important, it’s essential.

It may well be, and I hope it is, that these things are under control. But if not, they need attention. I am happy to help with accounting, and it sounds as though xipehux might be willing to have a look at whether the legal/corporate side is in good order.

And once it is, some of us can try a bit of fund-raising. Do we have any people with marketing expertise who might be willing to help?

I’m obviously doing something wrong with the mailing list, and will have another go.

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