I understand you wanting to have wine fully working on Haiku, most of us would love that.
x512 did beautiful work showing that it can be done, but getting it to the same level as wine on Linux would require a massive effort, for example the linux kernel just a few weeks ago added an ntsync mechanism specifically to support wine on linux better. This is something the haiku devs would have to do, but the rest of the port would probably have to be done by someone else.
In 2020, according to google, haiku had about 5.5 million lines of code, the linux kernel alone over20 million lines. Wine had over 6 million back then, and i think wine has grown much faster than haiku.
Of course, it is not all doom and gloom, most of the code should be working, but i think it is still a massive amount of work
It is actually quite general and open-ended, just “improvements to Haiku and related infrastructure” towards general usability and R1.
I try to focus on things that are actually useful or needed by users. System stability, performance issues, missing drivers, things blocking ports work, things that are annoying, etc. without getting too bogged down in specifics or things that won’t be a benefit to all or at least many users.
We could, and there is some debate if we should. But how useful is that? That is, how often do you really need to use a state older than 30 days?
The SoftwareUpdater version will definitely have a setting, at least.
“Personal computing” is what Windows is for. It is the operating system used on 96% of personal ccmputers. Every other operating system for personal computers is therefore “an alternative to Windows”, which is what I stated.
It’s there in black and white on the very page that you pointed me to, but it seems you didn’t read it.
Let me repeat it:
Haiku is a fast, efficient, easy to use and lean open source operating system inspired by the BeOS that specifically targets personal computing.
If people were happy with Windows, there would be no need to seek an alternative.
The blocking part is a fairly major bug where it stops refreshing the screen completely. This is quite embarrassing and justifies delaying the release if someone is actually working on it and planning to fix it. It should take maybe a few weeks, and there are a lot of other tasks to do for other devs during that time anyways.
Other things in WebPositive will likely not get fixed before the release, besides my usual periodic updates with upstream WebKit (which are equally as likely to break some more things).
Why would be come to haiku to play window applications and game when they could just stay on window and run the app there it sort of defeats the whole point of having a alternative OS that was curated to one specific thing since haiku was originally made for BeOS user, also having a proper working wine and under develop hardware acceleration isn’t really gonna help the OS progress as you need both to run perfectly on the OS system But first haiku would have to develop there Hardware acceleration and add multi monitor support before they ever start working on wine
also I’m glad Ethernet is being expanded on because I have a computer that need faster downloading speeds
Oh dear. I am surprised at your question, because I should have thought that the answer was obvious.
We are here because we don’t like some, or indeed many, aspects of Windows and find the other alternatives (Linux, Mac) to be unsatisfactory also.
Although it is true that a lot of software is migrating to the Web, there are a great many applications, often of a specialised nature, which will never migrate, or not in the foreseeable future anyway.
Some people may find that Haiku already offers them all they need, but some (including myself) don’t. My solution is to use two computers, but that isn’t an option that appeals to everybody. The other option is to not to use Haiku at all.
It might be correct to say that Haiku’s objective is not to run Windows applications.
But in the real world, the vast majority of applications are designed for Windows, and until Haiku has native applications that do everything that Windows aaplications can, then it is going to have to use some Windows applications.
At the moment this is done by porting the most common applications. But porting is time-consuming and Haiku has nowhere near sufficient resources. If WINE can be made to work, then that would solve the problem.
As you yourself say, the WINE people are unlikely to make it work under Haiku, so that leaves us. Whether it’s practicable is not for me to say, and the replies to this thread seem to suggest that it won’t be, which is disappointing.
It is actually quite general and open-ended, just “improvements to Haiku and related infrastructure” towards general usability and R1.
I try to focus on things that are actually useful or needed by users. System stability, performance issues, missing drivers, things blocking ports work, things that are annoying, etc. without getting too bogged down in specifics or things that won’t be a benefit to all or at least many users.
I am quite sure you are doing exactly what you are expected to do, and not getting bogged down in specifics seems to be a good strategy. Perhaps it is unrealistic of me to talk about focus when the project itself has no clear goals.
There are already threads about WINE and even some with “some” progress, maybe check there and if you are able, try to contribute? We are always looking for people to help out at haikuports.
The forum software says I am making too many posts, so this one answers two posts addressed to me.
Ubu,
Thank you for this information. I know what WINE is meant to do, but I was not aware that it is so far behind where it needs to be.
In the days of Windows 95, I understand that MS deliberately withheld information about the API from competitors like Lotus. It would seem they are still playing the same game.
Begasus,
I once wrote a program called “Hello, World”. That was and is as far as my programming skills go. My contribution to Haiku is financial, but not huge, reflecting the fact that my income is not huge either.
It’s good to know that some progress is being made on Wine.
How do you manage that? Asking sincerely, since I can’t seem to use Web positive proficiently or at all with most sites I browse (GitHub, Gmail, telegram web, most haiku related sites)
Which haiku version/hrev are you using?
I was on beta5 where It was totally unbearable, now I’m on nightly (can’t remember which) and it’s slightly improved but still not useable.
I can only speak for my part here, but I don’t put much development time to make such huge closed source services work properly. I’d much rather work on reliability and rendering and such.
Github for example has been notorious in the past for spamming the web console with so much stuff that this was pegging a full cpu core.
In any case, WebPositive seems quite useable for the most part, except for html video elements.
Which Haiku sites do you have issues with? Are there tickets for that?
It’s not A it’s B nonsense reply. Software beeing broken is the definition of a Software bug. So yes, it is literally “just buggy”. If we make this a blocker or not is our own decision, and we won’t drop Haikuwebkit or WebPositive just because some port of linux software exists. Much like we won’t delete our Text Editor or Calculator for the same reason.
Yes, it should be no. Waddlesplash is blocking this on the code review and refusing to compromise unless I make a full options system or something.
Apparently it is prefereable to harrass users who don’t want this to have to type no at literally every pkgman prompt than just having the couple of users who want this type “yes” once every two months.
That’s an oddly binary way to look at something that’s definitely a spectrum. A program that works but has some issues is buggy. A program that can’t do the thing that it’s supposed to do is broken. If it stops refreshing the screen, then that’s broken, so I understand why it would be a blocker. If it was just imperfect, I wouldn’t want to hold up a release for that but, as you say, it’s not my call.
Certainly didn’t ask you to remove WebPositive. Every OS should come with a browser.
You said it was not buggy, I don’t think there is a spectrum going from “buggy → broken”, but you’d rather call the entire spectrum “buggy”. I don’t think it is inacurate to call it buggy, even if it is broken.
Fwiw the bug mostly triggered when pasting, and some sites were not affected, so it was not “completely” unuseable, but very much so.
In any case, a commit tells me this is already fixed. so hooray for that
