Google's Fuchsia operating system gets first release soonerish

Since Zink is in a very good shape already

it makes sense to skip opengl

The reason I brought up libAngle was that WebGL is based on OpenGL ES 2+. That’s what Chrome uses. If this is the route that is chosen, we’ll become familiar with both before too long!

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Magma is the gpu driver architecture for Fuchsia. There are two driver components: a gpu-specific library loaded into each application’s address space; and the magma system driver that manages the hardware.

## Hardware requirements

### Vulkan conformant gpu

Magma is designed to support Vulkan, though it could be used to implement OpenGL or other graphics APIs. Fuchsia intends to support OpenGL via translation to Vulkan using ANGLE."

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Huawai might have been playing around with something like you describe but it seems the US embargo forced them to rush their fences and the ‘production’ version is just a fork of Android. See Arstechnica article.

Since the Zircon kernel is being constrained to about 100 system calls in the API, implementing Magma as a graphics driver set should be easier than anything Linux and BSD based. To follow my own advice, this looks like one of the “good pieces” to use.

Looking at the design document, Magma may limit us to UMA graphics cores until Google is ready to go all out for discrete graphics cores and cards.


please don’t read this post/reply if you are not “squizzler”, it is a waste of time, except if you really want to waste your time.

Dear squizzler, check out this link

The L2 branch of OpenHarmony 2.0 (which can run hongmeng apps), has like zero android code according to the link above.
Of course, everybody expects to be able to run android apps on harmony, therefore some kind of compatibility layer needs to be present.
If Ubuntu is coming preinstalled with wine you are also not going to scream that it is a copy.

Android did build on top of linux kernel, and I guess Apple used BSD etc… The only one that did write their own kernel seems to be huawei. And it’s a microkernel, so you can not say in any way that it is a copy of android, which is not a microkernel. [Besides that it has better benchmark performance on the same devices, and a copy is not going to become faster like magic]

If you do check the huawei event of 2nd june, you will notice, that it seems to be a lot more powerful with a lot of features.

I can tell you how horrible android is working on smart watches, and I am going to get a huawei watch 3 as soon as possible.

There are like nearly no domains where google is reaching out to be as good at possible. They are interested to get people on board by making the service free/cheap and harming the competition, so that the competition is having less clients/money, and has to stop improving their service.

You can search how the ceo of mozzila or important firefox developers are describing how google fooled them and sabotaged firefox [such that firefox would load for example youtube slower]…

Google is trying to stop others from becoming good/dominant in a certain domain, they are not like amazon striving for the best possible service/product.
[Or maybe they do but are just incompetent: If you want I can show you my email exchange with google support: I was fighting to get an invoice for paying 25 dollar/euro [for google developer account, which i made just to see how would be process of submitting apps on google play] for the accountant to have the accounting of the company correct. From all the services and products I was ever buying from around the word (usa, europe, etc), google was the only one that could not give me a bill/invoce, or any kind of paper (with my contact data) to show for what the money was paid with the credit card. I was fighting for about 2 weeks, tens of emails/contacts with costumer support… etc… nothing helped… one customer support send me from one place to the other and the other send me back to the first. They could not agree who was responsible for making a bill/invoice. I felt like talking to retards, explaining everything like to a child to be sure that it was understandable. Their live support, was technically so badly done, it felt like using a services from 20 years ago. The big software company is not able to develop a decent live support and being able to pass the problem of the client automatically to the other department? I had to contact all the other departments by myself and explaining everything again and again… then I was sent back… and I had to start again explaining the whole problem again… I made a tone of such round trips just to see how much effort it would take to solve this absolute minor and trivial problem. After two weeks of trying I gave up. ] Now compare this to the customer support of , I have there a business account, everything is handled and solved so fast, the in-app live support is super great.

To return back to the subject:
yes, harmonyOS will contain android, which is ok to be like that, and everybody was expecting it, because everybody wants to be able to run android apps if needed.
I would not be surprised to see all the android code being removed… like in 10 years.
Google is working on fuchsia since such a long time… if they really don’t have more code on private repositories, then they are really ridiculous [taking in account that they are reusing anyway a lot of code from android/linux].

When I saw the headlines that android 12 was released… I even didn’t bother to continue reading the article, just skipped the headline [In the past I was trilled watching their google event].

If google has something of real value, expect it to be on their private repository and not open source.

Why didn’t huawei build on open source version of android?
Why didn’t huawei fork fuchsia since it is also a microkernel OS?
Why doesn’t OpenAI use TensorFlow?
The licenses are all very permissive and good to be forked.

It is a link to a press release from Huawei itself: not the most impartial source I would suggest! I would personally place more stock in independent journalism whose reporters are experienced enough and willing to expend the shoe leather to get to the bottom of what is being sold - such as the many IT sites reporting the same as ArsTechnica. Refer also to Harmony OS Wikipedia article.

Certainly the Arstechnica article pulled no punches, implying a two pronged approach of floating some vapourware OS under the name of Harmony 1 (open harmony?) whilst in practice shipping a fork of android with the google stickers peeled off. Perhaps this is a deliberate feint, or maybe Harmony 2 is a rushed response to unviability of Harmony 1, or a stopgap to give the latter more time. In any case Huawei are being economical with the truth of what Harmony 2 is. Incidents like this make me glad our government is not using them for public phone networks anymore.

I am sorry to hear about your google customer services though. As a much less technical user I have recollections of the support forums a few years ago - rather than asking a technical person directly you had to use a forum: no doubt a silicon valley wheeze to create the veneer of “community”. I gather they eventually changed this when they realised that customers were paying to get utility from google docs or analytics or whatever, not for membership online “community” to discuss their products.

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Huawei, did explain how they were going to do it, and that harmony one would contain more android code. But you don’t find this kind of information on arstechnica. And they did exactly how any sane developer would do: You design your public API, and you use a “private implementation” internally using 3rd party parts to have something running. And then after you have it running, you replace part by part the 3rd party stuff with your own code. Did you see on OSX anywhere a BSD sticker?? The OS of playstation so far i remember is a custom build of FreeBSD… did you see a BSD sticker anywhere? It’s never mentioned. But huawei did explain how the OS is built up and on what components and how they are going the replace the internal parts. Was android vapourware because it was built on top of linux?
If you are concerned about being spied, checkout this.

If you check the history of the http protocol and how encryption was delayed/prevented you should start being concerned about using the internet, especially Mail. Check how ridiculous is the StartTLS protocol. Check how is the DNS protocol, and see how it was designed to be easy to track/spy, and how it was opposed to be made more secure/private.
You are living in a bubble imagining that your communication is safe because you don’t use huawei. Maybe you should remember how Cisco Hardware/Software was modified to enable spying.
How other countries can ensure that the huawei hardware is not able to spy on them, but the US is not capable of that? TikTok was spying too? When the mail protocol is designed to be spied (and in mails there is confidential data) you complain that tiktok is a security risk??? Be sure that usa is not interested on making the digital communication of kids more secure, when corporate data is left vulnerable to be transferred between mail servers.
It seems to be a technology war and a financial war, because big money is taken back (by merit) to china.

I saw some years ago a documentary about a little (i think african) state that was banning the import of chicken products, because they had great local production by little farmers and of very good quality. But then the big states made the bad invalid because of WTO rules and they were pressured not to ban the import of chickens (otherwise they would be banned from WTO and they would not be able to export), and so the country was flooded with cheap prices but also very bad quality chicken from western countries and the local chicken production of the little farms was destroyed.

Huawei was not only banned from USA, but hunted globally.
With such kind of argumentation, any country could ban any company,
without disclosing any proof publicly.

china could have done the same, to ban apple, since it is selling very good in china, but not, they were more intelligent than this, they are letting huawei fight and become stronger. I see huawei doing very well in the next 10 years, producing their own hardware and software themselves without any US technology, and becoming some kind of apple, just a lot better.

This thread brings the lulz.


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This thread is supposed to be about Fuchsia. Please put the HarmonyOS stuff in another thread.

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This forum is supposed to be about Haiku. Please put both Fuchsia and HarmonyOS stuff in another forum :wink:


I think my links to design documents for Fuchsia’s graphics drivers coupled with the observation that Zircon has only about 100 kernel functions to intercept makes the case for sharing drivers with Haiku. :smirk:

As for HarmonyOS still using Android and the Linux kernel… :thinking:


As far as I remember BeOS didn’t share graphics drivers with other platforms. :grinning:
Maybe with good reason? :grinning:

When Amiga Inc. tried to gain access to developer documentation for the latest nVidia graphics cards in 1998 to use in a next-gen Amiga platform, nVidia flat-out refused. Not even an NDA would convince them. I doubt Be Inc. would have had any better luck.

At least Google’s project is open-source enough to not require us getting an NDA to write our own closed source drivers as the MorphOS team and A-Eon have had to do to get Radeon drivers on MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.1fe.


What you learn from this? Stop buying their products, because this will give them even more power to dominate you. You want to spend a lot of effort in making haiku run their hardware, such that their hardware becomes even more popular? I would prefer to promote as little as possible hardware of the bad guys, and this would be be making haiku run on just one predefined hardware, which people could buy from haiku inc. And the drivers not being reused from other platform, but being at best forked from source code and from there on being developed by haiku itself. Like this you gain flexibility, competence, independence and stability.
I have been writing a lot of code to work around bugs that I encountered in many situation and I came to the conclusion that i spent more time in using features from library X and debugging/finding the bugs of library X and working around bugs of library X, then implementing the needed features myself [and debugging my own bugs]. Or even worse: You work around bugs, but at some point you get to a point where you can not anymore work around it… and all your bug-avoidance-code was for nothing.

Instead of experimenting with new ideas a lot of effort is spent on making haiku run with different hardware. It is hard to imagine that this is sustainable. Today I even would not like haiku to be run on nvidia gpu’s, I would prefer to see the computer getting fire when a nvidia gpu is plugged in :smiley:

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I agree that porting Fuchsia Magma graphics drivers framework to Haiku can be considered. Compared to Linux DRM it run in userland, has MIT-compatible license and written in C++. I haven’t investigated it in detail yet.


No, they just lacked drivers in general.


Correct. Commodore developed all first-generation Amiga chips in-house.

I am reading a little but i am not so experienced as you, seems very good place to start, but i suspect they will just support some contemporary gpu, for old hardware bsd maybe still have more support, especially to work with the non vulkan gpus.

But in the other hand seems more modern and adecuate with the original concepts for haiku, and will have a lot of support for modern graphic and portable hardware from now.

EDIT: Old hardware are good for haiku cause i suppose a lot of people as me, are using an old computer to test haiku without any danger.

Although, there are Nvidia x86 drivers for Amiga (NVIDIA’s GeForce GT 430, I have Amiga drivers for the Nvidia 6000/7000 GTX cards). I think those issues stemmed moreso after the project Fahrenheit API development, although Nvidia has put out great documentation and books on other fronts…