Genode and Haiku

I know this request is off topic, but do you have a blog or website that details what you are doing at work? It sounds very interesting.

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Should anyone be interested in seeing the project itself but not got round to a web search: Haiku-on-Genode

You would be astounded how boring my job actually is. Its entirely normal modern broadcast engineering stuff.

We’re doing a once-a-decade uplift of kit from 2009 spec to 2021 spec, but even that’s not that interesting. Cisco 9300s in place of 3750s; third gen Axia Audio consoles and mix engines for first gen. A lot of following the manuals for stuff and little else.

So after all this, they’re porting a radio playout system to a platform on which they currently have no sound support whatsoever?

“The OpenBSD HDA driver does not work on our main platform (Asus F2A55M). It starts probing, then goes something like this:”

Lets ignore that its still a consumer grade onboard soundcard too…

This feels like a hideous mis-allocation of time, effort and skill that would likely have solved many of their issues with Haiku; but its obviously their own time and money to do what they want with.

I’ve been looking at aes67, it’s basically a network protocol from what i can gather.

Its a protocol for audio over IP, specifically for professional applications. To replace soundcards, DAC/ADCs and audio cabling, instead using conventional data networks.

An AES67 mixing desk takes in various AES67 audio sources - from PCs, from link codecs, or from AES<->analogue convertors for things like microphones, does whatever mixing you command it to, and produces an AES67 output.

In the analogue world, a radio playout PC needs to provide analogue stereo audio to go in a mixing desk requiring a high quality soundcard; in the AES67 world it uses a software driver and throws out packets to the switch instead.

By about ~2013, basically every new medium to large install in radio would have been using AES67 or one of its pre-standardisation variants. Within my employers group we have been slowly retrofitting it since 2009; we still have some studios using analogue desks but in that case every source is going to an AES67 network, and then being re-converted to analogue before entering the analogue desk. This is because radio station consoles are Very Very Very Very Expensive.

While the cost of the conversion nodes may seem a bit steep versus the few remaining PCI-E pro sound cards (that market has gone USB, with all its inherent latency, so no good for radio) - outside of very small stations you don’t just have one PC outputting audio. For instance, if you’ve got live local news reads, you’ve now got two - there is no Haiku newsroom system. When you can deliver every audio channel in the entire building to every PC at once you find lots of reasons to do so, each time using software not a multi hundred euro soundcard.

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As a follow-up to the original post, the microblog about Haiku on Genode is at TuneTracker Systems tech blog : Haiku and Genode if interested. The code repo is linked elsewhere in the thread. (It can be found by expanding the drop-down gadget on the first post.)

I feel 2 pictures at top right corner of page very inappropriate. I hope that it is some kind of sarcasm.

It also says:

Haiku-on-Genode

LICENSE

The copyright holder prohibits use/reporting/editorializing based on any contents herein by any blog or website known for incitement against the Second World, NATO-style psy-ops, “civilized man’s burden” propaganda, and other “news”.

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Despite having people from all aver the world and probably dozens of different politic orientations, I’m glad that we don’t see such things on Haiku forums.

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Indeed. Please, everyone, keep it that way and don’t force the moderators to take action.

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Yeah. It might have been useful code otherwise. Especially for PinePhone as Genode is being ported to it.

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This is still possibly the strangest project I’ve ever seen. Move from one OS because you find problems with its hardware support; to another OS with even worse hardware support

And all while they keep chasing analogue audio output in a professional radio world where everyone has gone AoIP.

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Genode is a framework other operating systems are built on. Only the drivers are supposed to be Genode specific.

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And as far as I can tell, it hasn’t got very many.

The primary TT concerns with Haiku (that they have made us aware of, that is) have been stability - which has vastly improved, and driver support - which has also improved. But particularly audio driver support, which is increasingly an irrelevance in radio anyway.

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Such a license (based on people opinion rather than technical facts) has little to zero value in many countries.

More specifically, discussing specific subjects on a discussion forum (and members agreeing/disagreeing on them) does not mean official endorsement by the project itself.
Good luck to him enforcing such a licence in most courts.

Also, even if the licence was enforceable, as mentioned by others above, the community is not discussing global subjects, and is largely staying Haiku/BeOS focused.

TLDR: this code is useful as a PoC of using another kernel, and totally usable whatever your opinion.

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Genode is AGPL 3 licensed. Maybe shifting the code to seL4 or some other kernel might be needed for legal reasons anyway. MIT license doesn’t care how it is used but AGPL is more stringent than GPL licensing.

There seems to be a bit of cross-talk in this thread between Genode and the OP’s project “Haiku-on-Genode”.

In the same way Linux is merely a kernel that you can build an OS on. :rofl: Genode is, as far as I can ascertain, a “proper” and complete OS as any other. It can run on different microkernels and the “Sculpt” desktop is intended to be user customisable, hence the name.

genode might do better if it marketed itself as a free alternative to google Fuchsia, which it has technical parity. I know Fuchsia is open source in theory, but like Android, google being such a dominant party means that nobody can really make a competitive fork without the google services that consumers expect, access to which is determined by your relationship to google.

Everyone is entitled to their eccentricities, and whatever damage this “licence” might do to the credibility of the project, I don’t think it could be labelled as hate-speech or anything of that ilk. It must be borne in mind that this was not an especially unusual mindset in Europe between the US Iraq invasion and Ukrainian war, and I certainly remember this text was there prior to the Ukraine war.

So if you feel it is useful code, I would suggest using and contributing it on its own merits.

Considering what some of the other images on the webpage stand for, its intention is practically hate speech or very adjacent to it. @X512 has pointed this out before already and it is best left unsaid here.

Has anybody who is concerned by the design of his site considered reaching out and explaining that we as the Haiku community are delighted that he is contributing but that fringe political opinions are better consigned to appropriate places such as twitter, not your software repository if you’re trying to be taken seriously?

MIT licensed Haiku code can be forked and even relicensed, if I’m not mistaken. Only the Haiku name and logo are trademarked.