Genode and Haiku

Considering what some of the other images on the webpage stand for, its intention is practically hate speech or very adjacent to it. @X512 has pointed this out before already and it is best left unsaid here.

Has anybody who is concerned by the design of his site considered reaching out and explaining that we as the Haiku community are delighted that he is contributing but that fringe political opinions are better consigned to appropriate places such as twitter, not your software repository if you’re trying to be taken seriously?

MIT licensed Haiku code can be forked and even relicensed, if I’m not mistaken. Only the Haiku name and logo are trademarked.

Yes, that’s correct, anyone can do whatever they want with the name.

The political messages on the website would not be welcome in the Haiku community (forum, mailing lists, …) due to our community policies, in particular the first two rules:

  • Users are to refrain from delving into discussions about religion, politics, and other similar subjects. Try to stick to vi vs. emacs for off-topic fun…
  • Everyone can participate, regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, etc. Keep this in mind and keep the community safe and welcoming to all.

But as far as I can say this is all happening outside of Haiku now, as ttcoder did not give any news here for a while. I think he is free to say whatever he wants in his personal blogs and websites, at least it’s not up to Haiku to moderate that? Is it annoying enough to deserve removing links to the website from here?

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I think it rather difficult to claim breach of the second rule you cite, but as you say, it is not on the forum anyway. Perhaps rather than removing the links altogether (incidentally I concur with your choice of the word “annoying” - perhaps annoyance is not reason for cancellation) an appropriate trigger warning could be inserted?

I second this. But let’s hypothetically imagine there is an unmet desire to move to genode with the Haiku apps. There is the option of crafting a “clean-room” remake of the framework to remove the apparent unease felt by many at the political views of the author.

Anyway, to get back on the topic of discussing Genode more broadly and its interest to the Haiku community, I notice that the latest edition of their Sculpt desktop system was just been released. Has anybody had a chance to play with it yet?

When people say they want Haiku, but with data security features we don’t have, I often recommend investigating Genode which has interesting ideas relating to safety. There is supposed to be some form of “framework” to run Haiku apps although it’s not something I tried.

Well, there is work in progress from ttcoder to port Haiku userspace to Genode, but I don’t think it is a “download and run the apps” solution. Rather he is recompiling and probably modifying the code of the apps a bit.

Since the goal is to get TuneTracker Systems migrated off of Haiku, they have all the sources for the apps they want to run, and so making changes to said apps is not a problem for them.

Also, this is more or less an internal project and there will be no support for it, from either Haiku or anyone else at the moment. If there is even a place to download it?

TuneTracker, do they still exist?

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No binaries, but there is a fossil repository : Haiku-on-Genode

I never understood why TT chose to abandon Haiku for Genode over problems with hardware support. In my opinion it would have been less work writing drivers themselves than porting over to Genode. I could understand if they chose to port TT to an established operating system with a vast hardware support, like Linux. I suspect it is about competency, where TT do not have the competency to write drivers. I hope they survive this ordeal.

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Going on their status page they still have no sound support, for a radio automation system

Additionally, radio stations of even small scale do not use PC sound cards anymore - they use either a virtual soundcard driver that produces AES67 or software that directly produces AES67 streams. AES67 replaced using physical sound cards and analogue audio in medium to large radio stations in the late 00s and in small stations in the 2010s

I know TT targeted very small stations but as the cost of AES67 stuff is now so low that you would be insane to do a new deployment with analogue. And yet that’s all they will have even if this Genode flight of fancy gets anywhere.

I worked for the big fish in a small pond, and even where we still had analogue desks in some secondary studios in smaller locations; any PC derived audio went in to the desk from an AES67 to analogue adapter node rather than a PC sound card wired up to it.

Ah, I see…
So the question is: Does it work in Haiku?

No, there’s no AES67 virtual soundcard on Haiku. If TT had written/commissioned one it would have solved their soundcard driver issues forever; instead they’ve decided to move to Genode on which they currently have no soundcard support at all!

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Dane has recently stepped in in the IRC channel asking around how to create an iso, he also posted at FB about how he is setting up a mac system that can run Haiku virtual, with some succes from what I gather, so it looks like TT isn’t totaly dropping Haiku to me.

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Well we could always port haiku-on-genode back to haiku :smile:.

IMHO genode (or sculpt or HelenOS ??) is a framework that is designed to be ported to different operating systems.

Looks like the TT website is inactive, maybe until they release the new system. http://www.tunetrackersystems.com

Final status update from February 23, 2023:

@ttcoder: Have you looked into implementing support for AES67 in Haiku and use it for TT? Would it help you with your problems?

They might have realized that Genode is a dead end.

I have no interest in Genode (haven’t even looked at it) so I wouldn’t know about any progress or not there :slight_smile:

And why do you think so?

Because there are indications that they have given up on their effort to switch to Genode and that they are trying to get it working using a Haiku virtual machine.

Either that or that, it is a side-grade… that adds as many problems as it fixes if not more. It’s certainly a neat idea to port the Haiku APIs but maybe not ideal for their situation.