I do look forward to a nice, physical medium to commemorate R1!
I agree, waiting until R1 for physical media is probably the right move.
Another thought struck me, I would love a Haiku case badge (simple sticker would do),
maybe included with the CD/USB, or available separately.
Preorder seems like a good idea too, maybe separate CD/DVD preorders,
and USB stick preorders? So everyone gets their preferred media?
How many people, nowadays, do you consider will use physical media for installing Haiku?
I remember that Pulkomandy had a large stock of unsold DVDs from an earlier release. I can’t remember the last time I used physical media to obtain software.
It’s true that I make up my own USB booting media from downloaded ISO’s, but that takes two minutes and I would expect anybody who wants to try Haiku would be happy to do the same.
My view is that DVDs are obsolete, and we shouldn’t waste scarce resources on them.
I wouldn’t necessarily need install media for R1, but it would be neat to have a boxed USB device. An included manual would be super, but, I reckon, too expensive. I’d definitely go the crowd funding route and would participate in it.
The R1 should have something special to go along with it.
You sound as though you are selling corn flakes. I take an entirely different view, which is that if it needs something shiny or gimmicky to be successful, then we have failed to explain it properly.
I’m not selling anything, so I don’t know where you get that from.
Also, I don’t remember anywhere or anytime someone said this must be done to be successful. And if you’re not paying for it, what do you care? If it’s crowdfunded, then only the people that would be interested in such a thing would be paying for it. Nobody is twisting your arm and saying you have to go along with it.
You are trying to sell (for no money) the idea that people should try Haiku.
If people are willing to crowd-fund Haiku, then there are much better things the money could be spent on. If the only reason somebody is going to try Haiku is because he has been given a freebie, then I very much doubt that he (or she) is going to become a Haiku user.
Maybe the freebie is what introduces the person to Haiku, and down the rabbit hole they go.
I am not, and never said I was.
I don’t think you’re getting the gist of this.
The way the world is today, there’s very little reason to make thumb drives or DVDs of Haiku and try to sell them to the masses. The most logical use would be bringing them to a show where a wide diversity of people, who may not have ever heard of Haiku, could take one and try it out with no effort on their part.
That’s not what I’m saying here, for this. We’re a group of people who, for the most part I would guess, can easily download an ISO, find a unused USB device, and make our own.
However, given that the R1 has taken a while to get to, and a lot of work and effort went into it, it would be nice to commemorate the release with a physical package that would be a collectible (for people interested in collecting such things).
It’s not about selling to the masses or enticing people over, it’s for people who are already here. That’s why it should be a crowd funded thing: If you want one, you get one; if you don’t want one, you don’t get one.
If it’s sold at a profit and those profits go back to Haiku, that’s fine, too. If I have to pay a little extra to make sure each of the developers that would want one, get one, I’d be fine with that, too.
It’s just a fun something.
It might be interesting to make files available so one could print their own CD covers and CD labels even if the physical media isn’t sold or distributed.
I think for R1 we can do some special things, but it seems less important for the beta releases.
Hi everyone !
When I started to read this thread first time I thought as well -
such physical media should be created for R1 release only, but as I
was reading later posts I’ve changed my mind.
Before I would explain it more thoroughly I would write down here
another one of my first thoughts regarding medium types and OS
As I understood officially supported realeases are x86_32 and
x86_64 bit realeses just as they are ready for install to use by
regular - I mean skilled in not developer level - users.
x86_32 : focusing on better BeOS R5 compatibily, so possibly
old an sometimes called legacy hardware
x86_64 : focusing on better usage on modern (or rather the today
or current) hardware
Such as difference as such hardware available and also preferred
by users in Haiku community we should rather focus on possibility
when they were using DVD or USB.
DVD drive is more likely available,
moreover sometimes one and only or rather is offering
- a less problematic - booting experience : as I learned from
several forum posts.
However USB 2.0 has a better bandwidth when installation is
copying files to affordable SATA drive(s) – finally it does not
matter if the initial boot fails.
Mostly USB3 available - sometimes Lightning or USB-C - in case laptop
computers, in this case I understand those people who uses mostly them :
from their perspective DVD and other optical storages are obsolete.
Slow optical drive itself would be available for them only via USB
as well - in case laptops -, so then why not use a much faster
(pen/thumb)drives instead ?..
This way was my first conclusion to ask you – why not offer :
→ DVD intall medium for Haiku legacy users, with old and legacy hardware : x86_32 image
→ USB3 intall medium for Haiku current HW users, with UEFI, NVME, etc. : x86_64 image
Well I considered during I wrote those above : I was wrong. There were modern computers
made without ODs, however only with 32bit processor. Moreover someone would like to use
more cores to use with old BeOS application so they would install 32 bit Haiku on modern
So finally why would be desirable an “official” Haiku installation media - nicely printed
or even packaged - as some wished for ?
→ For someone it’s enough that : they too lazy to create it by yourself
→ For someone it’s not applicable : as not own an OD writer and/or printer
→ For someone it’s not applicable : has no proper knowledge to make it alone.
I must say it is the cheapest exclusion as there are descpriptions how to create Haiku
However not only experienced users wants to try out ‘new’ software platforms.
So now they must first learn creating installation stuff in case bare metal
installation. For them, it does not matter :
burning ISO to an optical drive
or using a pendrive image writer solution (Rufus, Etcher, etc.)
Sometimes loose motivation during processing new aka unknown steps executed as required
“just” to be able to begin with installation.
→ For someone called ‘collectors’ - it’s enough that : to put into their installation media
collection besides the installation itself.
Then I got finally the ULTIMATE IDEA what can be different in case physical media from the
actual digital download ?
-----> ULTIMATE EDITION BOTH 32bit and 64bit Haiku IMAGE available on it
and you select which one you would install from it -
Ok, you are right, 64bit image not possible to install on 32bit only hardware,
but it can be added as warning for newbies !..
-----> DEVELOPER SPECIAL EDITION for new developers who would contribute in Haiku development
as they might would be happy to have necessary native recommended tools available
in installed Haiku immediately as developers - I assume - intruct/mention for
new attendees in Haiku development documents and/or during mentoring.
Also I undestand : alpha stages (non x86 platforms) are being developed in VMs
due to technical reasons and also some developers like working on Beta in VM
due to other reasons.
Conclusion : So, for me, these last two occasions cover the use cases when I can imagine
someone get or even pay for physical installation material other than simple
“burned” available install images.
I say get, as in case developer could be donated with such media by someone
from the community if someone would like to support this way too
or a person/firm/organisation like to add as a gift for anyone such that way.
I ordered a batch of 1000 DVDs and sold about 700 of them. I would probably have sold more if FOSDEM had not been cancelled this year (last year I sold more than 100 just during that event). A batch of 500 DVDs seems perfectly reasonable to me and it will probably sell.
If we do this in q crowd funding way, we would not be selling these at production cost. It would be something like this (approximate prices):
- Donate 15€ → get a basic DVD in sleeve (produuction + shipping cost: less than 5€)
- Donate 50€ → full size box with DVD, USB stick
- Donate 100€ → full size box + printed manual
The idea is not that you are buying a product, but funding the project and receiving some physical artifact as a way to say “thank you”.
And I think the main point of the DVDs was not that people would use them to install Haiku. It was more a way to celebrate releases and pretend we’re a serious operating system project.
Wait, you don’t think we’re a serious operating system project? Considering people are already using Haiku as their daily driver I’d say we are.
One of Pulko’s jokes, I think!
OK. There’s room for fun!
I Like this idea. A lot. Especially for R1.
I wouldn’t survive to the pressure of working on a serious project in addition to my paid job. So I keep convincing myself that this is a hobby and just for fun thing.