Ultimately, I think all the developers are OK with IRC for now, and the Discord server probably can function the same way the Telegram channel does: as a place for users and maybe a few developers to congregate. I do not see a reason to change how the project “officially” uses these systems at this time.
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What is the telegram channel? All I’ve found is two announce channels.
I would vehemently refuse to use discord, or any platform bridged to it, just my 2 cents though.
As for matrix, synapse isn’t really ready to be used by us IMO (it has some stuff like a completely unauthenticated media repo (although that is more of a matrix spec issue)), it is still rather ressource intensive for not too much gain. The other server implementations are not ready for release (beta status and such).
The matrix irc bridge is also not very good, hardly supporting anything modern on irc’s side, and pretty much making both sides think the other side is the problem :)
(also has some issues like it editing messages to substitue irc nicknames with matrix userid’s, so one can do some neat replacement of text by joining with the right user accounts…)
To top this of, while quaternion is excelent (with my quaternion tester hat on) i don’t think it makes sense to use an imported application as our primary means of communication, and i don’t think there are any plans to write a native matrix client.
XMPP would still be an option potentially, we have a native client in the works and the servers there are in a bit better shape imo.
For now, irc is perfectly sufficient, logs are there for a backlog if one needs it.
Hi all, I guess we will just keep it as is then. Developers will likely still be able to see what is going on the Discord through the IRC-Discord bridge (when that is implemented) - although as of late there really isn’t much on there - most of the action is happening on here and on the mailing lists.
Are there any other concerns about contributing and decision making anyone wants to raise?
Another reason we should not use Discord (besides the already mentionned: being a closed source tool, not officially allowing bridges so that could get banned at anytime, being run by an unprofitable company that can change their pricing and shutdown at anytime, etc): it does not allow access to people under 13 year old. Which was a problem in the past for example for Google Code-In (not for us, because we use IRC, but for some other participating organizations). And is in general an arbitrary restriction on who can join the communication channel.
I think the situation is similar for many other services. It is not the case for Freenode and I think not for most XMPP servers (I asked the admins of the one I use and they said it’s ok for them, at least)
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Ok then. I think we can probably sunset the Discord idea then if that is the case.
On the subject of progress on Haiku being too slow, I just found this from 2004: https://www.osnews.com/story/8114/three-years-of-haiku-the-long-road-to-evolution/comment-page-3/ which says that Haiku might be ready in 2010, but it would be much too late.
As you can see, not a new idea. Yet we’re still here and people still think we’re on to something.
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An interesting read - and you’re right, this discussion has probably come up time and time again.
And Haiku is an open-source project with a small team of volunteer developers (whom, I might add, do this out of dedication in their spare time) who have already done so much, so it would probably be a bit unreasonable to say that Haiku is progressing too slowly. And as @PulkoMandy has mentioned, ReactOS is quite similar in terms of developer numbers and structuring and they are still in Alpha compared to Haiku, so I think Haiku is doing quite well.
If we want Haiku to progress faster, we need more developers and volunteers. If we want more developers and volunteers, we have to reach out to other people and promote the project, not just the operating system.
And then we have to make sure that we are keeping tabs on all the other things within the Project and draw attention to areas which we feel need someone to come in and manage.
@leavengood I think someone raised the suggestion of having an annual meeting for the Inc. where major issues are discussed and where new members are announced and existing members can announce they are stepping down. Could you perhaps discuss this idea with the other Inc. members?
Thanks!
Using the available money to successfully fund a project (say, 3d drivers) and pulling it off will be a nice showcase to the community and a catalyst to get more donations.
Are there any news on the Inc side? Can you guys give us an update about the Inc.'s (if any) roadmap?
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Hey there, the reason the Inc is so quiet is that the Inc members are quite busy and thus might not have time to give us regular updates (which is perfectly understandable). That being said, perhaps @leavengood (who is more active on the forums than other Inc members) might be able to give you some updates. As for a roadmap I’m not too sure the Inc. has a roadmap, but hopefully this will be able to be clarified too.
Additionally, you might also want to look at this forum thread talking about developer contracts:
As @jt15s says we can’t really say Haiku, Inc has a roadmap. We certainly have some goals, but a roadmap implies some deadlines which we don’t really have. Given the current membership of Haiku, Inc, deadlines would likely just be missed.
But I can list some goals:
- Find some ways to use our accumulated resources to move Haiku forward. We currently have someone interested in taking a contract. It is someone from outside the community so he has some ramping up time, but we want to give him a chance and see how it goes. Unfortunately I don’t think 3D drivers would be anything he could tackle anytime soon. We won’t know the result until we give it a try.
- Rotate out some board members to get some fresher people. I plan to stay on the board for a while for various reasons but if we had some more help that would be great. We do get replies on emails when we send them but essentially 3 of the board members are generally inactive, so that just leaves Alex (kallisti5) and myself who talk to the community and perform various functions.
- Related to the above: codify some bylaws to make it more clear how the board will rotate and make sure we don’t get stuck with the same people for years on end again.
If anyone on the forums is interested in helping on the board, let me know, either in PM or public reply here. It isn’t super glamorous, but having some more fresh perspectives on some decisions and maybe help on some aspects of managing the Inc would be welcome. For example, helping sort out those bylaws. Even someone saying “Hey Ryan, how about that financial report?” to keep me a bit more motivated 
Lastly to reiterate something Adrien (PulkoMandy) likes to remind people (and I completely agree): Haiku, Inc does not control the development plans of Haiku itself, beyond the fact that (right now at least) a few of us members of Haiku, Inc are also Haiku developers. We don’t get any more “votes” when it comes to decisions for the project and while maybe some people might not like that there is not one “leader”, I think it is a nice aspect of the project where we do manage to get a lot done mainly with consensus.
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Why does Haiku Inc. board need help? Because normally this shouldn’t be the case; do you have plans (organisational changes, announcements etc.) to remedy this situation? Awaiting PMs or public replies should not count as an organisational policy.
This is true, but lack of plans to get more financial resources and the inability to use current financial resources hinders the development speed of Haiku. One can present the fact that Inc. is just a on-paper organisation to operate the bank accounts etc, but as a Haiku fan, I am not happy, and know quite a few people that are not happy either.
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The situation is unlikely to change as long as these people are unwilling/unable to help with the actual work, apply at the Inc. and share the responsibility.
Personally, while I’d appreciate the funds being spent sensibly, it’s not weighing so much on my mind that I’d sacrifice what I love - using Haiku - for things I don’t: dealing with bureaucratic details, forging master plans to spark development and brilliant PR campaigns - all things I happily admit I don’t know anything about anyway.
There’s a long way between armchair and a real chair on the Inc. board…
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This implies that Inc. is open for new members and responding to the feedback with action. Is it?
Yes, the Inc is looking for new members. See this extract from @leavengood’s latest post:
I’ve seen a lot of people talk about the Inc and there has been some criticism about it. However, at the end of the day, no real action has been taken. It would be great if someone new joined the Inc and perhaps took action on the issues people have raised. The Inc would really appreciate any and all extra help and plus, you also have a say in decisions the Inc makes.
I read the post, thanks for the extract. Let me inform you that a reply on a public forum does not count. Also it does not say “membership” explicitly, it says “helping on the board”, there is a difference.
Where is the announcement on Inc’s website?
The Inc’s website is very minimal and does not have a blog post system. I’d count @leavengood’s post as an “official” announcement since he is a member of the Inc.
I might write a blog post on behalf of the Inc announcing that they’re looking for new members/helpers to help spread the word, though (if that’s okay with the Inc).
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