Funny thing to see all the communication platforms being listed here…
We recently turned off XMPP at our university and few years ago also IRC. Almost nobody used these services. These days we use Mattermost successfully. Would it be difficult porting a decent client?And something to use instead of IRC and XMPP?
I am a heavy user of Telegram, but can see that some people don’t want to use it…
If we also want to use something opensource, we don’t have a lot of choices.
I think XMPP and Matrix could be fine. I’ve started work on a native XMPP client (based on the old jabber4beos/jabber4haiku) but some more work is needed before it can replace Vision (it’s the minimum I need to consider it viable for myself).
Telegram is possible using Qt but the server is not open source.
I think most other systems only come with web or Electron-based clients and would not run on Haiku.
Telegram is already on Haiku and is stable, works well and is in HaikuDepot. I’d like to find an open source alternative, but until we do, it’s here.
Good to see that the source code I got from Blanco is being used 
Andrea Anzani did some work on it some years back in time…
I agree with you. As a father of four adult kids I can confirm that traditional (old?) ways of communication are not used from them. I like mails very much but they only communicate with messengers. They mostly don’t read my mails 
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Younger and/or average user never used IRC before. It is an old technique, used from older computher enthusiasts (us).
And I doubt if the usage of XMPP will make things better. Users have to install a new app for only one service => Haiku. I don’t know one user of XMPP.
The most users will use WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. They like to use what they know.
I like IRC and XMPP. But in 2021 both are uncommon. Especially for younger people.
Telegram is very convenient, and I really can’t complain if people prefer to use it as a way of communication. Plus, whilst being cautious, I trust the mindset of its founder.
IMO, for FOSS projects it should be okay to use it, but the primary way of instant communication should always be open and easily accessible, which in this case is IRC.
Feels like this whole chat discussion could be split out of this thread, but for now I’ll add my opinion.
I’ve been using computers for a while and have used a lot of chatting systems over the years, such as IRC, ICQ, AOL Instant Messenger, BeShare, Slack, Microsoft Teams, Mattermost and Discord. I just starting using Signal a bit though that is more of a one on one chat system (though so are some of the above.)
I personally really like the features of all the modern web-based chatting systems (Slack, Mattermost, Discord, etc) but they sure seem heavyweight for the features they provide. Ideally WebPositive is in good enough shape to run any of them well and with full features, like sound and notifications. It probably is not quite there yet but it is doable. I have used some of the Electron apps but prefer to use the web interfaces for almost all these, so I don’t think the need for Electron is a showstopper for Haiku the project to start using any of these (or for our users to use them.)
IRC is indeed kind of painful to use and the need to be connected constantly or to need a special bouncer is annoying.
I’m not sure it is necessary for the Haiku project to invent a modern but efficient chat system, but surely we can work on some native apps that make use of the current options. I know a native Slack client is possible because I’ve used one (and it is very fast), but we use Mattermost at work and I have not had much luck in seeing if the API is documented enough to make a native client. And I know most of us would prefer an open source server.
I think PulkoMandy’s work on the XMPP client is good and I also think improving BeShare (HaikuShare?) is a good idea too. But as others have said maybe these are too niche. There may not be a clear and obvious best solution.
But in general there are two concerns related to chat: allowing people using Haiku to communicate with other people within and without our community, and then people in our community communicating with each other, both on Haiku and on other systems. I guess this discussion is mostly about that second concern but the first is also relevant to Haiku to make it appealing to use.
I was thinking of making a native Threema client for haiku, that i could atleast tell people to use with good conscience, even if it does cost a bit of money. That is moreso the “how fo i communicate with usuall peers from haiku” case.
for the comms of haiku itself i think it is uncceptable to use any closed service that may simply decide to screw us over, or any service that requires applications we cant reasonably expect to run on systems haiku runs on.
I think this mostly leaves xmpp, matrix and irc, and maybe email.
Of those i only know that some non techies use matrix, so from that viewpoint it seems like the best option, but we lack a native client and there are some operational comcerns, but it would be possible i thunk.
Note that we should make onboarding very easy, as we do for IRC by having Vision preinstalled and able to join the channel without creating an account. At least with XMPP (don’t know about Matrix) this is possible and can also be done using a webchat.
Good point and sorry for derailing the original thread. I have moved this discussion to a separate one.
Good day,
It seems newgens are fond of Discord, Guilded, Zoom, Whatsapp… Even some OSS projects use Discord channels as the platform for devs to communicate.
There is also Rocket.chat which is a server/client platform that is OSS, or at least was. I’m checking it now and has changed a lot since last time I looked at it. This can be installed on own server, and users would have the client. Server can run on Linux, Docker container… And the client, on iOS, Android and Linux (as Snappy).
I’ve also tried Delta, which is a Telegram/Signal/Whatsapp like software that uses SMTP servers to deliver the messages, so only an email address and the software is needed, but I presume is more for person to person oriented than to groups. Mail servers could complain about traffic too?
Nonetheless, I think that, whatever the platform used, as long as Haiku users know about it, and the software is available to install from HaikuDepot, then there shouldn’t be much issues with it.
Regards,
RR
How about a self-hosted Matrix instance, which is where other chat platforms and protocols will be bridged too? It’s a common setup with open source projects nowadays. This way the primary chat platform will be fully controlled by a project, while still having as wide of a reach as necessary for those who prefer other ways to chat.
What about using Discord?
I am unaware of any native client. Wasnt it a criteria?
There is already a Haiku Discord server:
But some people are reluctant to use Discord since it’s closed-source, however if there is enough demand there is always the option to install a Matrix/IRC bridge.
Also, Discord is both a web-app and a native (Electron-powered, if I’m not mistaken) client, but I haven’t tested out the web-app in Web+.
Isn’t it basically the same thing, but with bundled browser in second case?
Yes, but the Electron client can do systemwide push-to-talk.
I do not wish to use discord, doesn’t matter whether it is via a bridge or another client :)
Electron isn’t native, it’s literally a chromium runtime.
I’m placing myself as “old” in this conversation (30’s). Kids are anyone under 30 
From what i’ve personally seen, the real contenders are:
Others:
Whatever we choose… i’d like to see:
No “browser-only” solutions please. I have enough tabs open.
Bridges to other chat networks are nice… but I find them annoying to be honest unless they’re implemented like XMPP does bridges ( more native, less (MATRIX)userna )
I think the number 1 issue blocking using Matrix is no desktop client for Haiku. Everything “nice” seems to be electron-based which isn’t something we do at the moment.
Quaternion is available for Haiku, but there is no Matrix client developed specifically for Haiku yet.