A non-US citizen will probably not be taxed if that person sends the crypto to another account. Where I live, you’re only taxed for the funds you hold on the first of January. What happens in between doesn’t matter.
If the Bitcoin price continues to fall, people will ask why Haiku, Inc. didn’t sell it’s holding.
This puts Haiku, Inc. in a horrible dilemma. If they sell, and the price then increases again, they will be criticised for losing their nerve. And if it continues to fall, they will be criticised for not selling.
Unlike gold (which has many uses), Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Holding them is not an investment (again like gold, they don’t pay interest or dividends), it’s pure speculation. Speculation is a polite word for gambling. Because of this, I have always been opposed to the Inc. hanging on to its Bitcoins, but while the price was rising it was difficult to get other people to agree.
I should point out that (as far as I know) the members of the Inc. didn’t actually decide to invest in Bitcoin. The coins were presented as donations. Right now, I am sure they are fretting about the best thing to do, and I don’t think this is fair to them. I think that the Haiku stake-holders (people who give money or time to Haiku) should help to shoulder the burden by voting on whether or not the Inc. should continue to hold onto it’s Bitcoins, or whether it should sell them.
Such a vote wouldn’t be binding on Haiku, Inc., but it would let the members know how people feel, and hopefully make it easier for them to make a decision. A decision to risk everything by hanging on, or to cut its losses while they still can.
Incidentally, the coins were donated when they were a fraction of today’s value, so there shouldn’t actually be a loss when they are sold.
What do people think?
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My opinion is to sell them.
Why does it matter? Just let Haiku Inc do what they want?
Regardless of when they sell their Bitcoin holdings, they will face a tax consequence, unless they can get their account turned around. They do not want that. I use a site called Node40 (had to pay for their Essentials plan), to know my Coinbase tax-liability. Printed out a form that my tax person needed. Simple. So, even if they can’t change their situation, account-wise, they will at least know their basis (starting value of their Coinbase holdings) and profit/loss value for the given year. If someone is willing/able to take on that financial responsibility, Haiku could sell at any time, I assume.
This was now merged in the appropriate thread, so please read the above responses.
It’s not a decision from Haiku inc. They ran into administrastive problems with coinbase when trying to sell the bitcoins. Selling them would require one of the Haiku inc members to do it personally, and personally pay taxes on it. Which none of them wants to do (and rightfully so). Until the account is converted to one properly owned by the nonprofit. Or maybe just wait until bitcoins aren’t worth anything and we can forget about them.
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I prefer hard currency like coins, nickels are made of nickel, etc
If Tesla inc can hold bitcoins in a corporate structure so can haiku
Here’s a question:
What constitutes a member of Haiku? If someone (or a group of people) were to buy the Bitcoin from Haiku and other people were to pay the tax requirement on it (as a donation), you could have your cake (the financial benefit of the Bitcoin) and eat it too (no taxes to worry about; well, you’d still have to PAY the taxes, but the money would be in your account). I’d gladly buy some of the Bitcoin from Haiku, once my finances are sufficient (I have 9% of 1 Bitcoin right now, I’ve been buying up as it drops lower and lower). Otherwise, the Cryptocurrency (Bitcoin and other) is just sitting there, useless and unwanted. I’m willing to pay the taxes on Bitcoin I move or sell, but not that I buy. But hopefully there would be others willing to help you offload this useless (to Haiku right now) digital money by lessening the tax burden. Then, once you no longer have any of it, just don’t accept cryptocurrency… or close the Haiku Coinbase account or something.
Find out what the basis is/was and then find out what the tax would be on it, if sold.
However, I don’t really see what the problem is… the amount you’d get from selling the Bitcoin would not be LESS than the taxes you’d owe on the selling of it, so the only problem is you’d have less money than the original donation, but at least you’d still HAVE the money. I know Haiku is a non-profit, but this situation may simply require “biting the bullet” and taking the hit and getting the monetary value out of an otherwise useless bunch of numbers on your books. Unless it would affect your standing as a non-profit entity?
Tesla Inc. is a hundred billion dollar multinational corporation with buildings full of accountants and lawyers. Haiku Inc. is a small volunteer-run nonprofit that seemingly can’t get Coinbase to respond to its emails. These two aren’t really comparable.
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Nickels are made of nickel alloy. Likewise pennies are not made of pure copper. The dime and quarter are made of layers of silver and copper. The semiprecious materials in U.S. coinage are not worth what they appear.
That said, the intrinsic worth of a $100 bill is less than $.10 making it potentially wallpaper once the Great Depression resumes.
Haiku inc can sell the Bitcoin tax free. Non profits are exempt from capital gains tax. Just make sure the transaction use the haiku inc account.
I have to say that I am disappointed by most of the responses. Only one person has said whether or not he considers that the coins should be sold.
I am not American, so I don’t know what the consequences would be for an individual who sold the coins and had to pay tax. However, it’s obvious that there would be no tax to pay unless there were a profit, and the profit would provide the funds to pay the tax.
I think the Inc. should pay a professional accountant for his advice, and then follow it. It’s crazy to lose all the money just because nobody knows what to do.
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As explained in the previous messages, that everyone surely read, the problem lies with Coinbase rules, and taxes. People do not want to have the moving of these vapour-coins influencing their personal taxes, and it is their right.
As of selling, it is Haiku Inc´s decision. They do not need to do something just because some people think they should sell it now… If the thing has value, it will rise up again. If it will not rise up, then it will just disappear and , as said before, the whole thing ends and we can forget about it.
You haven’t understood a word.
The Inc has a difficult decision to make. It would help them if they knew there was plenty of support, or not, for whatever they considered doing.
No, they don’t. Really.
It doesn’t look like anyone really cares about these imaginary coins, especially not enough to have to pay tax personally for selling them.
I don’t see why anyone should care what the Inc does with it’s toy money, anyway, They already have the support of “the community” to do whatever they want with it.
the Inc can sell them Tax free, the Inc is a registered 503c non profit IIRC. The inc can sell those coins through any exchange they wish to
Not if the holdings are in a personal account, which they are. Coinbase apparently refuses to cooperate.
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if they are donated to the inc, the problem is solved
Again, please read the messages above. The inc members have already explained that the account that received the bitcoins is locked in some kind of administrative problems with coinbase that prevents doing exactly this.
The decision is made long ago, we should sell these stupid imaginary coins that are worth nothing while someone is willing to pay for them. That’s not a difficult decision, at all, it is very obvious to everyone. I see no reason to try to debate it here. Unless you want to make fun of people who thought bitcoin was a good idea, maybe? But that wouldn’t be nice to them in this time where they are watching their money disappear in thin smoke.
The problem is, Coinbase won’t let this happen due to administrative issues. So we can talk as much as we want about it here, it will not change a thing. So, can we just stop wasting our time on it?
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